balancing tires - Montana Owners Club

Dogman · 03-18-2008, 04:31 PM

Somewhere on the forum I recently read something about balancing tires on the 5'vr being different then on the TV (something about them being "lug centric"??. Now I can't find it, but anyway I just picked up my new tires today and want to make sure they're done right when I get them mounted. My question is are all trailer tires "lug centric". What is the down side of having them balanced like any other tire and would you expect all tire shops to be equipped to do lug centric balancing.

DHenry · 03-18-2008, 04:40 PM

I understand that you have to ask to have them balanced "lug centric" in order to get them done that way. I am still not sure what the difference is between this way and the other but the majority of MOC'ers believe in the lug centric way so that should be the way to get them done.

bsmeaton · 03-18-2008, 05:20 PM

The Montana Lug Centric wheels mean the center hole does not fit tightly over a flange on the hub like a Hub Centric wheel does. As a result, the wheel can drift off center of the hub if the lug torgue sequence is performed with weight on the wheel. Lug Centric wheels should always be initially installed and torqued while unloaded. Periodic torque checks after that are fine while under load.

However - I have never heard of this affecting the method of balance. I would be interested in the answer.

richfaa · 03-19-2008, 04:06 AM

I am sure that one of our tire guys will have the technical explanation of the difference. I can tell you that if they are balanced "hub centric" as auto and truck tires are, and many tire shops do not have the adapter or don't know were it is..they will not balance.. at all.I forgot about that when I purchased new tires last year and the "new guy" at the tire shop said all 4 of my new tires were defective because they would not balance. As for the need to do so..some say yes..some say no.....but it does not hurt to have it done..

LonnieB · 03-22-2008, 05:50 AM

Dogman,
The pilot (center) hole on some wheels, isn't exactly in the center of the wheel. When this hole is off center it is impossible to balance the tires conventionally, by using a cone to center the wheel on the balancer shaft. In order to balance these off center wheels, the tire shop MUST use an adapter. It is a plate that attaches to the balancer shaft, that has wheel studs which go through the stud holes in your wheels. It is the ONLY way to center the wheel on the balancer, and any reputable tire shop will know this, and have the correct adapters.
As to the necessity of balancing trailer tires, I guess it's a matter of personal prefference. I like them balanced for a couple of reasons. They wear more even, last longer, and give the trailer a smoother ride when they are balanced. There are several alternatives to machine balancing, such as Centra-Matic balancer rings which are held in place by the wheel, or a couple of different materials that can be put inside the tire before it is mounted. Some seem to work pretty good, some don't.

bsmeaton · 03-22-2008, 06:13 AM

Thanks Lonnie -

I had my spare put on one of the aluminum rims last fall, now I wish I would have watched how he balanced it.

exav8tr · 03-22-2008, 06:47 AM

Lonnie, Thanks for the great explanation. I now know what you folks are talking about when you discuss this. Again, I have learned from the MOC.....

hazmic · 03-22-2008, 08:34 AM

Lonnie explained exactly. I use the power packets in mine and they work great. My understanding is that most 18 wheelers use the power for balance now.

Dogman · 03-22-2008, 03:02 PM

Thanks a lot for the info. I'll be changing the tires this coming week. I'm in a small town and there's only one tire shop in the whole place and it's not a big one. Hopefully, they'll have the right stuff. Going to stop there next week and let them know I'm coming.

DHenry · 03-22-2008, 04:08 PM

Lonnie, so are you saying that if the wheel pilot is not in the center than the conventional way of balancing the tire will not be possible, so the tech has to use the adapter? When I had my tires balanced they put it on the balancer just as any other tire would be and spun it and it showed where the weights needed to be placed. So if the hole was off center it would not have been possible to balance it this way?

noneck · 03-22-2008, 04:55 PM

DHenry...yes they could "think" it is being balanced but essentially they may be putting weight on tires that need little or just compensating for out of center rotation. When its really out then they tell you its a bad rim... Had Mavis tire center do this to me and I put that one underneath as the spare believing them... now the wiser and the weights are coming off it.

LonnieB · 03-22-2008, 05:49 PM

DHenry,
In most cases, the pilot hole is indeed centered in the wheel. HOWEVER, in some cases (especially trailer wheels) it may be off center. As noneck said, they can FOOL the machine into thinking the tire is balanced by adding the amount of weight the computer calls for. Keep in mind though, when they do this the tire is still out of balance, and will be worse when installed. The first indication of an off centered pilot hole is when the computer on the balancer calls for a large amount of weight at any given location. When this happens, the technician should automatically check the runout of the tire as it is spinning. It's hard for me to describe what he should be looking for, but I'll try. As the tire is rotating on the balancer, look at the top of the tread. If it looks like it is moving closer to, and then away from the edge of the safety guard that is attached to the balancer, then the pilot hole is off center, or the tire is not round. That's kind of hard to follow........think of looking out to sea at the horizon, with a layer of clouds just above the water. As the ocean moves, the horizon gets closer to the clouds, then farther away. Now imagine the horizon is the tire, and the clouds are the safety guard. I hope that makes sense, it confused the heck out of me,

. If there is an unusual amount of movement (there is usually a little on most all tires) then the tech should install the adapter and check the runout again. If it's good, balance the tire, if it's bad, the tire is not round and, depending on severity may need replaced.
I should have elaborated on the last post I made. Thanks noneck.

mail2us · 03-23-2008, 04:33 AM

As stated by many on this tread, "...thanks Lonnie."

You write in plain English when explaining tire issues.

I try saving all your tire feedback as being very knowledgeable as many other MOCers on various other subjects. Thanks. Dennis

DHenry · 03-23-2008, 05:01 AM

Thanks Lonnie, that is very clear now.

Glenn and Lorraine · 03-23-2008, 05:55 AM

This is just another reason to go to that "REPUTABLE TIRE SHOP" and not that average corner tire shop. Reputable tire shops usually specialize in tire work and will have the most up to date tire equipment including the most up to date electronic spin balancers. The latest spin balancers come with cones for center hub balancing but they ALSO come with adapters allowing for lug hole balancing. Being that center hub balancing is usually very accurate and also the easiest and fastest way to balance a tire/wheel combination most all tire dealers will use the cone method and rarely will pull out the lug hole adapters. HOWEVER, You can ask that REPUTABLE dealer that your tires and wheels be balanced using the lug holes and rarely will they charge extra for this method.
Most all aluminum wheels are molded and you can pretty much count on the center hole being very accurate. Where as the steel wheels the centers are punched and not necessarily at the same time as the lug holes and therefore there is a possibility of the centers being slightly off. Rarely are they off enough to create a balance problem. The simplest way to check for off center is as Lonnie described above.
Personaly, it is not something I get overly concerned about.

sreigle · 03-23-2008, 06:19 PM

Dhenry, when it happened to me back in 2001, the local tire shop showed me how far "out of balance" the tires were. And how far "out of round" the rims were. They were convinced the rims were the real problem. They were using a hub centric balancer. I called Keystone and they sent me five new rims. Yes, even the spare was "out of round." This same tire shop then found the same problem with the new rims. That's when I started researching and found out about balancing trailer tires and rims. I found a shop with the correct adapter and there was no problem balancing them.

I have not balanced the tires on this Montana, but did on the two prior Montanas. I've not seen any abnormal wear in 14k miles that could be contributed to balance. But maybe I've just been lucky. I'm totally unsure whether balancing trailer tires is worthwhile or not.

skypilot · 03-24-2008, 05:35 AM

Not on my 5er but on my Jeep cherokee - had a problem with tires not staying in balance. Finally asked the dealer to balance them lug-centric (told me they never had to do that on auto wheels). Well, guess what - my jeep they do. Have two rims that are off-center punched. We put them on the balancer with the center cone and then put a small stand with a rod and wheel on it that rides in the rim depression. Slowly rotated the wheel (by hand) and the rod moves in and out as the wheel rotates. Had almost 3/16th of an inch movement from high to low spot. Did the same wheel lug-centric mounted and moved less than 1/16th of an inch. Store manager was surprised - thanked me for being so patient with them (have had the jeep in 9 different times for balance issues - this last time they actually replaced all 4 tires under warranty for balance ride issues) and on the test ride the new tires also bounced - I had read the start of this thread earlier in the day and it reminded me of this issue to I brought it up. The old tires had some wear issues now so the manager kept me in the new tires (I'm sure he didn't have to but I appreciate the fact that he did).

In any case, steel wheels again so if you decide to have your's balanced, add me to those suggesting that they do them lug-centric.

You may also like: