Interesting Propane Article

[bullroc3]

I read an article in the paper the other day about places that fill propane tanks cutting amount of propane they use to "fill" the tank. Seems that when the price of propane rose last year, instead of charging more for the tank, they put less propane in the tank and charged the same amount. A 20 lb tank was filled to 18 lbs.

I needed to have a 30 lb tank filled before heading to the NE Rally. I checked on-line to find out how may gallons of propane should fit into a 30 lb tank. I found that 8 gallons should be in the tank. I watched as they filled the tank and it shut off at 6.5 gallons. Does this sound about right? The cost was $13.25. That would be about $2.03 per gallon (oops - Guess I should of checked my calculator math).

Also, this Editorial showed up in today's paper.

Still rip-off by any measure
Published: May 26, 2009

Et tu, propane? Now, even backyard grillers are getting burned.

In the tradition of 56-ounce "half gallons" of orange juice and ice cream, 12-ounce "pounds" of coffee, and 14-ounce "pints" of Guinness, comes the standard 18-pound refill of the 20-pound propane gas tank.

Last summer, when oil prices soared to more than $140 a barrel and gasoline prices reached $4.50 a gallon, it drove up prices for most other fuels. Rather than directly increasing retail prices, however, most dealers of replacement propane tanks reduced by two pounds the amount of gas in each tank, while charging the same price.

Since the height of the fuel price spike last summer, propane futures on the New York Mercantile Exchange have declined from $1.73 per gallon to just 71 cents, a decline of 59 percent. And that is up from a low of 60 cents in January.

Tank refill prices typically run between $20 and $25. Even though the fuel prices have declined drastically, most retailers plan to continue refilling tanks with only 18 pounds of gas, rather than the standard tank capacity of 20 pounds, without reducing the price.

An industry spokesman told The Associated Press that the reduction has produced few customer complaints.

That probably is due to most customers not realizing that they have been hit with a huge price increase.

Gasoline pumps regularly are inspected to ensure that they deliver a gallon for the advertised price. Consumers grumble when prices rise, but at least they know that a gallon is still a gallon.

Propane dealers also should be required to specifically inform consumers of just what they are getting, perhaps with regulated price-per-pound postings akin to the price-per-gallon signs that are required at service stations.

Better yet, since the fuel price pendulum has swung in consumers' favor, dealers simply should give customers what they think they are buying.

[HamRad]

It is illegal to fill up a propane tank completely. That is why there is a safety valve/fill device now on them. So the process you describe above sounds about correct. There may have been a tiny bit of fuel left in the tank. So when you filled it up with 6.5 gallons it probably had about 7 gallons in it. The reason for the limit on the amount they can fill is to allow an expansion pocket.

Well that is my understanding of the process. I will stand by for someone who really knows to come by and give more and or better information.

Propane in the California area has been running from the low $2 to up around the low $3s.

HamRad

[OntMont]

This why I prefer to go to a place that sells by the amount you actually get, be it in pounds, gallons, litres or kilograms. Flying J is always a good bet, but there are other places that sell that way.

[KTManiac]

Out here we get charged by the gallon, not a flat rate per fill.

When we were in Oklahoma last November, it was a flat rate of $25-$30 to fill a 30lb tank, even if it was still half full. That was, if you could find someplace that sold propane! I don't get it, in the land of Oil & Propane, you had to literally go on a search for propane and pay $30. Here, they sell propane all over the place, and you can get it filled for about $18, ....if it only takes 2 gallons, you get charged about $4.50

[SlickWillie]

I'm thinking my 30 pound tanks usually take about 7.5 gallons when empty. However, I did a swap out on a 20 pound bottle a couple weeks ago. I do not believe they are filling those bottles to capacity. Next time I swap one, I intend to have it weighed. Bottles rust when left outside here, and swapping them out is a cheap replacement.

[Glenn and Lorraine]

As HamRad pointed out they are not allowed by law to fill to capacity. There must be space for any expansion. If you did fill to capacity the safety valve would open.

[Devildog]

With the OPD valve on the tank, best fill rate is 80%. Any greater, and the safety will vent it off anyway (overfill protection device OPD).
I currently am paying a flat fee for fill up of my 30 lb tank of $14.00 here in Chattanooga, but that is at only one place. It is an LP gas distributor. So, i only take the tanks in when they are empty. I have payed as much as $30.00 on the road to have the tank filled, flat rate.

[BB_TX]

There was an article in the paper just a couple days ago about the 20# tanks you exchange at Walmart, Home Depot, and such. The tanks used to be filled with 17# of propane. Now they have quietly started filling them with 15#.
They had a picture of a tank and in small print at the bottom of the label it said 15#. So I went and looked at 2 tanks I have. One I exchanged several months ago stated 17#. The other I exchanged about a month ago stated 15#.
I am curious. Did a 20# tank originally actually hold 20# of propane plus have room for expansion?

[kerry]

A 20# tank takes 4.5 gallons to fill, a 30# 6.75 gallons to fill. All the new tanks shut off automatically when full. Kerry

[2 Sinks]

Oh no...another interesting weight topic!!!

I attended an LP gas class many years back relating to LP gas (LPG as a motor fuel) powered equipment.This was before the OPD (overfill protection device) which Devildog mentioned was introduced to the industry.The instructor had all components contained in the lp bottle for all to study and from what I remember a cut away bottle too.One of the most interesting topics of the class was the empty weight of the bottle termed as tar weight(TW)The TW is stamped on every lp bottle as well as a replacement date/year as well as some other interesting numbers.

The reason TW came up was because the instructor wanted to relate to lpg in household use (commom ground)as well.He asked how many in attendance had a gas grill at home and how much do you pay for a bottle refill and how do you know you are getting the amount of gas you are paying for.Simple weigh the empty bottle and verify the TW stamped on it.

Now a 30 lb bottle such as we have on our Montana's has a TW of 23.6 lbs empty (at least mine does)so after filling with 30 lbs of lp it should weigh 53.6 lbs.My filled bottles always do because I take a scale with me and weigh the bottle when its handed back to me,a good quality bathroom scale will sufice.I've never been shorted on the amount I've purchased and have frequently asked if their (stores scale) scale has been calibrated/certified recently.If you ask they have to answer or find someone that can,manager etc.

The instructor told a couple of stories of how companies made extra profit on lpg by not filling the bottle to proper weight.I don't know how strictly lp was regulated back then.Times have changed and there are stiff fines for shorting consumers on fuels these days.

Just my 2 cents worth.

I have more but tried to keep this as brief as possible.

[kerry]

I forgot to mention. We sell propane, and since the bottle valve change, we no longer have scales because our new pump is metered, in gallons. Kerry

[2 Sinks]

Kerry- Thats good info,the place that does all my refills still has the scale and sets it it up for either a 20 or 30lb bottle.

[richfaa]

Never coud figure out why it is called a 30lb propane bottle as there is not 30lbs of anything in it. Propane weighs 4.125lbs per gallon. The tank is flled to 7.25 gallons that is 29.906lbs (close) and the tank weighs 23.6lbs ..that is 53.506lbs. I have only seen them filled by weight At home it is sold by the tank and only increased 1.00 per tank since last year. At our florida campground there was no increase from last year.

[Bill-N-Donna]

The reason IMHO is because it sounds better. Just like a 2X4, ever measure one of those?

[Jim Jarvis]

quote:Originally posted by Bill-N-Donna

The reason IMHO is because it sounds better. Just like a 2X4, ever measure one of those?

Before it goes thru the planer or after?

[clutch]

If they don't sell propane by the gallon I don't buy from them.