problems with their rv

[Montana_4616]

I have a 2002 Montana 5th wheel and have had brake problems almost since it was new. The problem was with the bearing buddies leaking back grease onto the brake drums and magnet. I had to have all new wheel units installed and told not to use the bearing buddies, but to pull the wheels every 2 years and pack the bearings by hand and that will solve the brake problem. I have great brakes now, and no othere troubles with my unit. Love it.

[melnjoy]

I think what Carol is try to convey is that, yes Keystone states that they expect you to have excellent customer service, but cannot always control the Human factor in it. In the final outcome, you will get what they promise, (or else they would be out of business), but to get to that point, we need to treat each other with respect and dignity. The people who you speak to are NOT the ones who wrote the advertisements and promises for Keystone, they are just human beings who can and will react to their surroundings, people need to remember that.

I will risk a little flaming here myself, by giving you some insight to customer service peoples view. I had worked in Senior Management for a Large Retail Company for many many years. And I don't think it matters at all as to what kind of Retail Customer Service we look at, it all comes down to People. Some are much better with people in general than others. All of the Companies claim to have the best customer service, because that is what brings the customer in, they can't really control what each of their employee do or say. So.... The level of customer service you actually will get comes from the person you are speaking to at the moment.

I am a people person (so I've been told), and I can tell you, while I was in a position of authority, if I had a customer complaint from someone who was kind, understanding, firm and had a valid complaint, I really bent over backwards to resolve their issue and I also tried to go above and beyond for them because of their kindness.

Now... if I got a customer who decided they wanted the whole world to know about their problems and personal anguish by first starting to yell at anyone who happens to be within view... they did not get the "extra mile from me", Once I was called to assist, I would always stay very calm, address the issue with a neutral attitude and ask them what it is exactly they want done. If it was something simple and easy to take care of I did, and with a held smile, but not with pleasure and appreciation toward that customer, that I would normally have for my customers, (it is hard to hold a happy demeanor when you are being yelled at), and I did only that, and nothing more.

If it was unreasonable, and sometimes they were, usually at this point, it was more a case of them not taking on the responsibility of their own abuse toward the items they had a complaint about, but if it was not within reason, I would have to refer them to the dreaded "Corporate Offices", and let them deal with it, knowing it would be resolved probably in favor of the customer, just because of the unwanted "publicity" but it would not be an easy task for them

Now I realize, our RV's are our homes for many of us, and are more important than something trivial, but people in customer service, no matter where they are, are still just people like your and me. And as stated before, You WILL get a lot more help with understanding and HONEY in your attitudes, than with anger and threats. It is not always as easy as that, but if we all use restraint and patience, it will work out in the end.

When it comes down to being able to treat everyone exactly the same, you try to treat that person who is yelling at you for Nothing you personally did as well as you would treat your next door neighbor, you can’t. It is just not possible. Also, as far as abuse toward someone in customer service being (part of the territory) I call that unfair, no one goes into customer service wanting or expecting abuse, what they are wanting is to be able to help and solve the problems that people have. By stating that abuse is part of the territory is giving license & permission to people to be abusive and disrespectful. Now if they are not able to deal with issues and keep people calm and take care of it before it escalates, then keystone should not have them in that position. Okay, wow, this is way too long. Sorry. But, you guessed it, I was also in customer service and took in a lot of abuse and am a little touchy about it. And I am getting away from the subject at hand, which is Keystone takeing care of the RV's. we have not had any issues that that they have not come through for us on yet, and don't believe we will in the future, you just need to talk to the right people and with dignity and respect and it will happen. I better go, before I get myself in real hot water.

Joy

[sreigle]

I agree with Carol about the honey and vinegar. I start with the honey and give it every chance to work. If I have to, then I will increase the degree of firm incrementally. I found with Keystone I never had to go beyond the honey. However, that does not mean they fixed everything I would like fixed. They pointed out to me on more than one occasion that the service center is a warranty outfit and is not allowed to bring things beyond original specs nor work on anything that is not original equipment. I have no argument with that even though I would have liked those things taken care of. Some folks got new tires to replace the worn out ones when they had axles replaced. We didn't. They didn't have our size in stock so we had to buy our own. I have no argument with that, either.

At no time until we were ready to leave did I mention Montana Owners Club to them. You do NOT want to mention MOC. They will take that as undue pressure from a source that has no power over them. So don't do that. I mentioned it at the end during a chat with one of the workers during his break. I told him I appreciated his efforts and how this service center was getting a good reputation on MOC and that has to help the company. He then told me they had a terrible reputation prior to the change in service center management a year or two before (don't remember the timing). He said the attitude in those days was to avoid spending company money on repairs they could avoid doing. He said that changed when the manager was replaced with current management. He said they now are oriented towards going the extra mile as that since good customer service helps sell new rigs. You know that has to be coming from the top.

Padre, you know from our past discussion I'm convinced your bad experience was because it was during the prior regime. I'd bet if you were dealing with the current customer service management you'd find a whole different experience.

I once worked a retail job part time. I remember how my reactions to those who approached me reflected their approach to me. Treat me with respect and dignity and I'll bend over backwards for you. Treat me like I am beneath you, then I'll tell you to kiss my ***. Obviously, retail would not be my strength.

[padredw]

Thanks, Steve, I hope you are right about that matter of time. I'm afraid that my clarity about what happened to us at that time has sometimes prevented our very positive evaluation from coming through. The fact is: both points are true and do not offset each other. We feel that we are really among the most fortunateof Montana owners. We have had almost no problems (I speak in fear and trembling). But that doesn't mean that I am not clear about the unacceptability of treating different customers with entirely different policies in regard to necessary corrections.

And, I am also somewhat sensitive to the matter of attitude and manners on the part of the customer. I agree wholeheartedly with what has been said on that score except when the implication is that such failure of service as I have experienced must be due to some such failure on the part of the customer. I can assure everyone that there was no personal confrontation at any time in my contact with Keystone. The people with whom I dealt at Keystone were polite in every instance, and so (I will ask you to believe) was I. The matter of attitude did not contribute to the problem on either side.

I know I have said more about this than I ever intended to, but I want the real issue to be the focus and not a misunderstanding based on issues that were not even in the picture.

[mobilrvn]

Regardless of how civil customer service relations are or aren't, we should all be polite, kind and understanding of the other's position in the grand scheme of things. As suggested by another customer visiting the repair facility, we funished donuts, etc. for the whole crew everyday our rig was being repaired (you can get them at the nearby WalMart at a very reasonable price).

But here is the rub. The job wasn't done right in the first place either because of workmanship, design or bad materials and that is why you have a warranty claim---part of your purchase price, my friends. When the warranty repairs still aren't done right, you can blow it off, fix it yourself or try again. All of this has a cost to YOU. You don't get a refund. I fix a lot of things myself, too. Yes, I hate staples. The factory knows about this issue of staples, but until their cost of warranty repairs for stapled items goes through the roof, they will take the cheapest way out (if they used staples and glue, bet there would be a lot fewer of these problems).

As far as Keystone/dealership relations, I don't think that there much concern on the part of Keystone. None of my complains have ever been acknowledged. They are mainly concerned about selling units. If the dealers can't/won't fix them, then after a three or four month wait, you can get to the factory where they will do an above average job of repairing---again all of this will cost you money for the most part. We love our Montana inspite of all the vast amount of problems, but that doesn't make us happy campers and that should be part of the equation. Also, and this should be a concern to Keystone, we will never buy another Keystone product, nor recommend them to anyone regardless of how nice and friendly their customer service department is (they do get a lot of practice, eh?).

[lightningjack11]

Sorry about your problems. I have always felt initial contruction should be done by the factory and not the dealer.

I enjoy working on my Monty but if I were a fulltimer I would feel different. I can't understand why they won't use wood glue to assist the staples.

[drhowell]

Ddayjday mentioned the bearing buddies leaking grease into the brake drum. This is a problem when you overgrease them. Many people think that since there is a grease fitting you should pump it full of grease. Wrong! Check the Alko/Kober owners manual and you will find that one pump very infrequently is enough.

The posted problems with Keystone seem to vary with the customer. I agree with the majority here that you should work cooperatively with the local dealer and Keystone to get the best possible outcome. This may take time and patience but nothing can be gained by playing the blame game and displaying your frustration. That is not to say I haven't lost my patience at one time or another.

I am concerned with Keystone's past history and shoddy worksmanship but agree with Rich that they seem to be getting back on the right track. The MOC certainly offers a place to share experiences both good and bad and will help me to make the right choice if and when I decide to replace my 3280RL.

[Outahere]

Brian, My wife and I have been in this Monty for two years now and yes, we have had problems BUT Keystone has stood behind the fixes. We are now going to realy test them by taking our unit to Goshan(sp) because we have had two water leaks that the selling dealer can't seem to fix and they have been there the entire time we have had the unit. We are taking it back to the factory and hopfully get this fixed onec and for all. All I'm saying is be patient. Keystone will work with you as they have with us and many others here

[sreigle]

On the greaseable bearings, they're not really bearing buddies. Bearing buddies I used on a boat trailer to keep water out of the bearings when I submerged the trailer wheels.

As for the greasable bearings, they should put a sticker on them to keep people (including me) from overgreasing. I have related this story several times in MOC so won't repeat it. Bottom line is I learned from a dealer who clearly was right - no more than 2 small squirts of grease once per year. Even when fulltiming. If anyone needs more details of my travails on this topic, click the envelope above and email me.