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11-11-2009, 09:56 AM
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#1
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Eureka
Posts: 1,490
M.O.C. #2
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So Off Topic but...
We are building a house here in NW Montana and I am trying to make an informed choice on Windows for the house. Do any of you know anything about Argon in windows or have any real experience with them. My log home company says they are a waste of money but much of what I have read on the Internet states differently. Since I really value the vast experience and opinions of so many of the MOC members I am hoping there is one of more of you that can help enlighten me.
Thanks a bunch,
Patty
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11-11-2009, 10:46 AM
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#2
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Waterford
Posts: 3,693
M.O.C. #7500
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Is there a reason why they say they're a waste of money?
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11-11-2009, 11:21 AM
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#3
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Eureka
Posts: 1,490
M.O.C. #2
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They say they are only good in Southern "hot" climates and that the Argon leaks out completely within two years and is replaced by plain air. That is not what my research shows, so hoping someone with real knowledge here can help me decide.
Edit to remove signature line...oops!
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11-11-2009, 12:10 PM
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#4
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Montana Master
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Texas City
Posts: 5,736
M.O.C. #7673
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How does one tell if the gasses have leaked out?
I had double pane krypton filled windows installed two years ago and a cost of $16K. Four double [s]paned[/s] hung windows, one triple [s]pane[/s] hung, three bathroom size, and 2 regular size windows. This included removal of old aluminum windows and re-installation of the new windows. I did not opt to have the new doors I had installed replaced, but if I had, there was a guarantee of at least a 40% reduction in electric/heating bill, in writing.
What I have experienced is a much quieter environment inside the house. The outside noises are minimal. The air conditioner does not run as much as it used to, and the heat in the winter time is contained more inside so the furnace does not run as much. Yes, there has been a reduction in our electric/heating bill. I do not know how much, but it is less.
I'd do it all over again should I need to.
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11-11-2009, 01:31 PM
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#5
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location:
Posts: 2,156
M.O.C. #6920
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Do you need "quiet" windows in NW Montana. It can't be like Orlando, LA or other cities with sirens and boomer boxes??
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11-11-2009, 02:13 PM
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#6
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Eureka
Posts: 1,490
M.O.C. #2
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Thank you Wayne, sincerely appreciate your reply. Curios as to which window you choose to triple pane and why?
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11-11-2009, 02:15 PM
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#7
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Eureka
Posts: 1,490
M.O.C. #2
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Dennis and Judy, nope don't need "quiet" windows for sure. We have a pretty quiet environment here, but heck quiet can't hurt right? LOL Without a doubt looking at energy savings and being warm in the winter and cooler during the hot summer days we have here, the nights are much cooler summer or winter.
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11-11-2009, 03:30 PM
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#8
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New Bern
Posts: 4,369
M.O.C. #8728
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A good double pane window with a warranty (some have lifetime) will save you energy. The inert gas shouldn't leak out. That is your thermal protection. Inert gases do not conduct heat and cold as readily.
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11-11-2009, 03:34 PM
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#9
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Montana Master
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Texas City
Posts: 5,736
M.O.C. #7673
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RC & Samantha,
I'm not sure of the name of the windows I had installed, but there was a feature, or two, that I really liked. The windows are child proof. That is, you can flip a switch and they can only be raised a few inches, so a child cannot slip out. Also, with the flip of a switch you can hinge them down for cleaning inside and out (not that I do the cleaning) No painting is required, unless you choose to. I personally think they were worth the money I paid.
Good luck.
Edited: p.s., an impressive part is the easy ability to demonstrate the energy efficiency using an infra-red heat lamp. placed 8 or so inches on one side and placing your hand on the other side of the window will render little or no heat. Ask for that demo on any window you get. They usually have a heat gun with them when they are trying to sell the windows.
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11-12-2009, 03:04 AM
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#10
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location:
Posts: 2,232
M.O.C. #2975
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Some years before we sold our stick house, we had triple pane windows installed. It was best improvment we did. Quieter house although country living, the heat savings and cooling savings in summer was outstanding. Lot of time we didn't need air conditioning in summer.
I don't remember the brand of windows. They did have the easy clean option. They would flip inside to clean. Also the sliders doors had dead bolts in the top. And the windows had some security features too. They also had a slight tint to the glass. Absolutly no heat would come through the glass in summer. No drafts in winter. I wish I could remember the brand. They installed them for us. A company called Tradmark but that was not the brand of window.
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11-12-2009, 03:52 AM
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#11
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Montana Master
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lake George
Posts: 1,078
M.O.C. #3847
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In our previous home we installed the double pane windows. We lived then in Albany, NY. It gets very cold there in the winter and it really was a help. I wouldn't even consider puting in windows without! It does also help with the heat in summer. With some of these window, I believe you may be able to get a tax credit. Not really sure on this, though.
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11-12-2009, 08:25 AM
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#12
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 657
M.O.C. #9178
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If they are energy star compliant and have argon gas between the panes they should qualify for the $1500.00 energy tax credit. I just had 23 put in my house.
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11-12-2009, 09:55 AM
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#13
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Raceland
Posts: 409
M.O.C. #2389
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RC & Samantha go and ask Gary Sullivan .com and he can give you some very good infomation on any type windows your looking for you might have to do a google search but i do think thats his web site........
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11-12-2009, 03:38 PM
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#14
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Down the Road
Posts: 5,627
M.O.C. #889
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I had Pella dual pane vinyl windows installed in my house. With wind chills at -36 last winter, I was sure glad I had gone with the better windows. Cant speak on anything but these as this is the first house I had custom built.
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11-12-2009, 04:29 PM
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#15
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Haldimand County
Posts: 2,413
M.O.C. #122
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As someone else said, check out the Energy Star information pages and go from there. This is pretty unbiased information from a governent source rather than a vendor with a vested interest. The grant money should be worth considering.
Energy Star Windows
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11-30-2009, 02:00 PM
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#16
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Marcus
Posts: 1,032
M.O.C. #2819
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I will tell you we used argon filled double pained (Anderson) windows when we built in 2007. I feel our best bang was to have a company come in and spray 2" of foam insulation after the outside walls were up and then they filled the walls with shredded insulation. We were so tight when the energy company came to do an audit on our house that our bigest air leak was from the roof down the interior walls. Even with 24" of insulation in the attic our biggest leak was thru the interior walls. When he was finished he said we have a very tight house and qualified us as a Energy Star house. I couldn't bring myself to get double hung windows knowing they had to be somewhat loose to allow then to slide up and down. I know they are rated almost as good as the crank out type, but I didn't want to give up anything.
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11-30-2009, 03:28 PM
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#17
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Montana Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: anywhere
Posts: 912
M.O.C. #6260
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We had Anderson triple pain in North Dakota, at -35 the windows did not feel cold. As for the argon leaking out and being replaced by air, find a reliable person to talk to, that guy didn't know squat.
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11-30-2009, 03:46 PM
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#18
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Montana Master
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Texas City
Posts: 5,736
M.O.C. #7673
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RC & Samantha
My previous post stating triple pane should have read triple hung. All windows I had installed were double pane krypton filled. From what I have read, krypton is a better gas fill for windows. Forgot why.
I'm going to go back and edit my previous post - just for clarity.
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11-30-2009, 06:15 PM
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#19
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Somerset
Posts: 104
M.O.C. #6664
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Whatever brand you choose, don't skimp on windows. I know too many people who have replaced windows after 5 - 10 years because they didn't last. My husband worked for Andersen windows and (of course) we put them in our house 32 years ago. We actually moved several windows to the basement when we remodeled and added some new, larger windows on the main floor. We wouldn't have done that if they were falling apart.
Andersen, Pella, Marvin are 3 brands I know of that are good windows. I'm sure there are others. They cost more but will be worth it in the long run.
Judi
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