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Old 04-13-2017, 06:46 AM   #21
mlh
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I ask my Allstate agent if I was covered if I was overweight. They called Allstate. Allstate said yes you are covered. If you speed, run a stop sign or a red light you are covered. They can't choose when to cover you or an insurance co. would never cover you.
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Old 04-13-2017, 08:11 AM   #22
Razrbk
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Based on manufacturer weight specifications, why would someone knowingly buy a TV that is undersized for their trailer? Those who bought unknowingly, I can understand their need to rationalize their undersized TV.
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Old 04-13-2017, 08:27 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Razrbk View Post
Based on manufacturer weight specifications, why would someone knowingly buy a TV that is undersized for their trailer? Those who bought unknowingly, I can understand their need to rationalize their undersized TV.
The problem is, for all the reasons noted, the manufacturers won't take the liability on and specify the max loads. It seems irresponsible to me but I also understand people will do some crazy stuff. I've towed conventionally for years and honestly have never been concerned about tow weights. I never drove radically or overloaded but I've seen plenty of trucks out there doing just that...loaded down passing me at 85.

Just being aware of the responsibility is a good start for most.
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Old 04-13-2017, 09:11 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Phil P View Post
I will let you look up the legal definition of a serious accident.

Others here have posted about having law enforcement weigh their TV and trailer after a fender bender that required one of the vehicles to be towed.

There are other charges than can be brought like Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter etc.

Then on top of that you may want to have someone very familiar with insurance policies advise you on how much coverage you have when you deliberately exceed the capabilities of your vehicle.

The door sticker is the legal limit your vehicle is allowed to weigh. The only entity that can change that is the manufacturer.

If you want to gamble on those types of problems then that’s fine with me but I am too old to take that kind of chance.

Phil P
First, for the record, I don't run overloaded. Second, you stated:

"Now just as a note most states have laws that result in a 20 year prison sentence if you have a serious accident while over loaded."

You would have to be convicted of vehicular manslaughter or vehicular murder, which does indeed carry a maximum sentence of 20 years in most states. There is a pretty high bar required for such a conviction, but it IS possible, but very unlikely that anyone 200 or 300# overweight would ever be criminally convicted. However, having said that, you could be sued and held liable in civil court, and i agree it is not worth taking the chance.
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Old 04-13-2017, 09:30 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by TLightning View Post
GVWR (never use EW) of a 3660RL is 16,645. Pin will be 20% or 3,300...well over a 2500 diesel.
Only way to know for sure what the trailer weight, pin weight and truck weight are is to weigh the truck alone (fully loaded) and the truck and trailer hitched. My HC has a GVWR of 14,285#, but I am nowhere near that heavy when loaded, based on running it on the scale.
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Old 04-13-2017, 10:47 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by FandHB View Post
Really appreciate all the input. I want to make sure the truck can handle the load and travel safely. We've also decided on the 3790RD.

According to the SAE J2807 calculator which I believe to be the most accurate and legal I have entered and confirmed the following:

GCWR
25100
GVWR
10000
GVW
7392
TWR(trailer + 1000#)
14085
Hitch + Cargo
1250
Passengers
700
20% Pin Weight Factor
= 3290 which is > the trailer pin weight

I feel comfortable with this.
I have read this over and over again and can not for the life of me understand how you can feel comfortable with this.
You will be over your GVWR, Payload, Most likely rear axle and or rear tire load limits, in fact about the only number you didn't go over was the GCWR, if that is truly the right number. Sorry, but I feel you are being irresponsible.
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Old 04-13-2017, 11:03 AM   #27
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Based on the SAE calculator and the known weights the max king pin weight is 3290. The 3790 has a pin weight of 2920. This is less than the max calculated pin weight with 2700#'s of cargo and passengers factored in. Combined weight of TV and trailer is less than the 25100# max.

How do you figure its overloaded?

Check the link and run the numbers...maybe I'm mistaken.

http://fifthwheelst.com/rvtc_calculator.html
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Old 04-13-2017, 11:26 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by FandHB View Post
Really appreciate all the input. I want to make sure the truck can handle the load and travel safely. We've also decided on the 3790RD.

According to the SAE J2807 calculator which I believe to be the most accurate and legal I have entered and confirmed the following:

GCWR
25100
GVWR
10000
GVW
7392
TWR(trailer + 1000#)
14085
Hitch + Cargo
1250
Passengers
700
20% Pin Weight Factor
= 3290 which is > the trailer pin weight

I feel comfortable with this.
Trying to make sense of your numbers.

20% of 14085=2817.

Then you have 1250 and 700 as Hitch, Cargo and Pax.

To me, that adds up to 4767. Add that to your GVW and I'm seeing 12159 on you 10K truck. Is that what you came up with?
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Old 04-13-2017, 11:31 AM   #29
FandHB
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Originally Posted by cw3jason View Post
I have read this over and over again and can not for the life of me understand how you can feel comfortable with this.
You will be over your GVWR, Payload, Most likely rear axle and or rear tire load limits, in fact about the only number you didn't go over was the GCWR, if that is truly the right number. Sorry, but I feel you are being irresponsible.
I'm not sure if my first response came through but how do you figure? the 3790 PW is 2920# and the calculator is telling me the max PW for my TV is 3290#

As for the GVWR how is the 10000# being exceeded?

The gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR), or gross vehicle mass (GVM) is the maximum operating weight/mass of a vehicle as specified by the manufacturer including the vehicle's chassis, body, engine, engine fluids, fuel, accessories, driver, passengers and cargo but excluding that of any trailers.

Run the numbers in the calculator:

http://fifthwheelst.com/rvtc_calculator.html


GCWR
25100
GVWR
10000
GVW
7392
TWR(trailer + 1000#)
14085
Hitch + Cargo
1250
Passengers
700
20% Pin Weight Factor
= 3290 which is > the trailer pin weight
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Old 04-13-2017, 11:40 AM   #30
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Ok, I found this page: http://fifthwheelst.com/rvtc_calculator.html

The number it produced is the maximum trailer weight you can pull and using 20%, still be within your GVWR. So, from your numbers, you can pull a 3290 lb 5'er. BTW, you numbers don't match what I came up with. I get 2040 using 20% pin weight, but no matter, you are over.

You can verify this by increasing your GVWR to 14000 lbs and then selecting any percentage. The number you see will be the GVWR of the trailer you entered.

That final number is NOT the pin weight.
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Old 04-13-2017, 12:06 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Todd727 View Post
Trying to make sense of your numbers.

20% of 14085=2817.

Then you have 1250 and 700 as Hitch, Cargo and Pax.

To me, that adds up to 4767. Add that to your GVW and I'm seeing 12159 on you 10K truck. Is that what you came up with?
Good, I'm glad you got the same thing I was getting. The numbers didn't make sense to me either. This truck is way overloaded.
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Old 04-13-2017, 01:15 PM   #32
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Good, I'm glad you got the same thing I was getting. The numbers didn't make sense to me either. This truck is way overloaded.
Yep. After I found the calculator he used and realized it was telling him his max 5'er could only be 3290 lbs, it all made sense.
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Old 04-13-2017, 01:21 PM   #33
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FandHB if you wont to pull that camper with your truck, do it. So you might be a few pounds overweight, who cares. You are not going to jail, not going to be hanged. Enjoy.
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Old 04-13-2017, 01:40 PM   #34
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I definitely misread the max trailer weight vs pin weight but that's crazy. Basically the only thing you can tow without a 1 ton dually is a landscape trailer? The 5th wheel tow rating from the manufacturer is 13900. How is this possible?
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Old 04-13-2017, 02:00 PM   #35
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There you have it, so much confusion, so many numbers, difference's in same trucks in a different year etc etc etc.... Change a couple things around from one trip to the next and the weights all change and I'm pretty sure no one is going to the scales each time they leave the driveway with a recreational trailer. The 3790RD comes in around 2800-2900lbs of pin weight with it loaded the way I keep it. If I add a full load of water that actually lightens up the hitch weight a little. As has been said many times over the proof would be hard to hold up in court after a significant accident with parts everywhere. I am more concerned with drivers who never operated anything more than a car in their lives buys a big Dually and a 40ft trailer and get behind the wheel. That is dangerous ! Having 2 - 400 lbs of excess pin weight when the truck is equipped with extra springs or air bags is of far less concern to me than the above and there are plenty of those people on the road and trying to park in the RV parks.... The above scenario is vehicular manslaughter in my view as they are ill equipped, experienced to be out on the road with such a unit if they never drove anything other than a car.
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Old 04-13-2017, 02:03 PM   #36
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I definitely misread the max trailer weight vs pin weight but that's crazy. Basically the only thing you can tow without a 1 ton dually is a landscape trailer? The 5th wheel tow rating from the manufacturer is 13900. How is this possible?
Now your starting to get it. There are some 1 ton SRW that can handle that trailer, but you have to pay close attention to the numbers. They are all different based on trim and options. Its best to know your trailer weights then go find the right truck to fit. The 3790RD is definitely a 1 ton truck trailer. I actually chose the 3711FL over the 3790RD because of the weight.
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Old 04-13-2017, 02:18 PM   #37
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Don't let the weight police scare you, been towing the 3790RD for two years with the 2015 CC SRW 2500hd which is exactly the same truck as the 3500hd SRW except for 2 helper springs being installed on the 3500hd. Same everything else, handles it just fine with absolutely no issues. For some guys on this site you basically need a freightliner semi tractor if you are going to tow anything. There are thousands of 2500hd's on the road towing 38ft plus recreational trailers around North America, through the mountains etc. Many of these newer trucks are away safer and tow a way better than some of the dually's from just a few short years ago. Of course for some of these guys they get so wrapped up in weights it is crazy. If you personally want a dually buy one, it comes down to what each individual wants based on their use and what they feel comfortable with..... If you already have the 2500HD go get your 3790RD and enjoy......... If you don't have a truck yet and are buying a new one you might as well buy the 3500HD srw as it is only a few dollars more to get the "special sticker", that is why I ordered the 3500HD this time, I got HP/Torquealightess...... the wait is killing me though.
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Old 04-13-2017, 02:56 PM   #38
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You added a lot of cargo to the truck. Move some of that to the rear of the fifth and it wouldn't be as bad. As it is, you only left yourself about 600 pounds of tongue weight. For instance, if the B&W hitch I use is around 300 pounds total (including the under bed portion). If you could get all 900 leftover lbs of cargo into the trailer, it would help, as that could all go to additional pin weight. Can't do much about pax. I get that.

I just ran your numbers with a 300 pound hitch and a single 185 lb driver (about what the manufacturers do) and 15%. That jumps the allowable camper all the way up to 12486. The manufacturer also uses the lightest truck, 4x2, no options when they come up with the absolute max gooseneck/5th wheel numbers.

It turns out, as you are finding, that 250/2500 trucks aren't really made with towing in mind. The 350/3500 guys get themselves into the same problems when they buy the 10K option to save on registration costs.

Anyway, good luck.
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Old 04-13-2017, 02:59 PM   #39
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Well I'm a black and white, right or wrong kind of guy. If you take the big truck ego out of the equation, all of the hearsay and use the information provided by the manufacturer who built it then how can you go wrong.

Just got off the phone with GM and they sent me the documentation to back up their rating of 13900# for a 2016 2500HD 6.6l Duramax. Max king pin weight 3390#.

Thats golden as far as I'm concerned and now I know.

I thought it was a simple enough question and I truly appreciate all of the input that lead me straight to the horses mouth.
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Old 04-13-2017, 03:33 PM   #40
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Well I'm a black and white, right or wrong kind of guy. If you take the big truck ego out of the equation, all of the hearsay and use the information provided by the manufacturer who built it then how can you go wrong.

Just got off the phone with GM and they sent me the documentation to back up their rating of 13900# for a 2016 2500HD 6.6l Duramax. Max king pin weight 3390#.

Thats golden as far as I'm concerned and now I know.

I thought it was a simple enough question and I truly appreciate all of the input that lead me straight to the horses mouth.
So with 9 years of improvements, your 2016 is only rated 300# higher in towing capacity and 390# pin weight than my 2007.5? Not arguing with your numbers, only surprised they weren't higher. What is your GCWR? Mine is 22K.
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