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Old 10-03-2007, 11:39 AM   #21
richfaa
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I know of no federal standards or regulation that applies to RV construction. We do know about the RVIA. It is not a regulatory agency of any kind. It does offer "standards" but there is no enforcement and compliance is voluntary. If there are federal standards or any enforcable standards that apply to the Rv industry(other than EPA standards) I would sure like to know about them.
 
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Old 10-03-2007, 03:30 PM   #22
ols1932
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The only business that doesn't "like" fulltimers is State Farm Insurance. They dropped us on two occasions when we began living full time in an RV.

Orv
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Old 10-03-2007, 03:59 PM   #23
bigmurf
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How true ORV. 40+ years with them and only a break in claim but go fulltime and they won't touch me.
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Old 10-03-2007, 04:21 PM   #24
Mrs. CountryGuy
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State Farm is not very smart then, are they??? Look at how many Full timers there are out there, they are passing up on that entire market??

oh, well,
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Old 10-04-2007, 09:25 PM   #25
patodonn
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Many of us have had warranty dealings with Keystone while "full timers". I cannot remember seing any comment on the Forum that indicated any reluctance by Keystone to not only honor their warranty agreements, but to give extra consideration to "full timers" in arranging for the time/location for the work.

I suppose that if you get into a p---ing contest with them over some nit-noy issue, they COULD pull that card, but I've not heard of it, ever, in over 4 years of full timing and participation on this Forum. Their assistance to me has been exceptional, and I never shyed away from telling them that I was "full time". It has been at the factory twice (since we were in the area anyhow) and at two or three other locations for warranty work...never a problem.
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Old 11-27-2007, 06:00 AM   #26
owenwetzel
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Hello Mobilrvn; Let this preacherman tell you about fulltiming. my wife and I own a 2000 Montana 3280. Since April 2004 we have lived in it fulltime 7 days a week year round. At present we have had no serious problems, all minor. Would not change it. All waranties are long gone, no problem, just do preventative maintenance. We are set up at Creekside RV Park Pigeon Forge, TN. Make short trips & back. Have fulltimers insurance through Progressive. Covers all personal belongings,liability,RV,& truck.
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quote:Originally posted by mobilrvn

Went to our first RV show since we've decided to dump the Montana. Keystone and several other mfgrs. aren't being considered by us since they have language in their warranties voiding them if the RV is used for fulltiming.

We would like to know what the legal definition of a fulltimer is. Is it 365 days, 181 days, 60 days, or some other time period a year? Does it mean owning an RV and not a house, too? What if a person is fulltiming for six months, has no house, but intends to buy one? If I take an RV on a three month trip to Alaska, Baja. FL, ME, and but 50,000 hard miles on it, it is covered. But if I take it to FL for six months and NY for six month, then it isn't covered!

Something for you to think about when considering a new rig. I did ask a mfgrs. rep at the show and the best he could come up with is the use the extra water heater would get. Told him that it would be covered by the warranty on the water heater and he had no come back.

I questioned on
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Old 12-09-2007, 04:18 PM   #27
lenlin84
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In my opinion, Keystone already knows what we are doing with their product! Thats why they build them the way they do. We have been full-timeing now for about 5 months so we are just starting out. Our '03 3255RL is working perfectly. We bought the unit pre-owned but in perfect condition. One of the original selling points listed in the '03 sales brochure was that the ceiling and sidewalls were vented to allow moisture to escape which will make the coach last longer. You don't build up that kind of moisture by living in it for 3 to 4 week vacations once or twice a year! They know we buy our Montanas for more than the occasional vacation trip. If I wanted a unit to just vacation in, I could have gotten a cheaper brand name to do the job and saved myself a ton of money. I bought a Montana because of their reputation for being a well built unit. We are very pleased to call our Montana 'Home'. The writer that "dumped" his Montana because of one statement in the paperwork shot himself in the foot. Montana's are good units as affirmed by the many statements made by the good folks in this thread. He should have taken the advice of the old Packard Motor Co. One of their most effective ads proclaimed,'Ask the man that owns one". Well I own one and I'd buy another one in a heartbeat when it comes time to do it!
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Old 12-14-2007, 03:45 PM   #28
sreigle
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Mobilrvn, there is no language in the Keystone manuals voiding warranty for fulltimers. Nada. None. The language applies to rigs set up to not be moved. Set up like a park model, for example. Keystone knows very well we are fulltimers and have never ever questioned it nor refused any warranty work.
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Old 12-14-2007, 04:11 PM   #29
mobilrvn
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Guess the problem lies in definitions. We are fulltimers--24/7/365 in the 5W. It is our residence by most definitions and the warranty excludes residential use. Yes, we recreate in it all the time, too. The lawyer in me can argue both sides of the equation as I am sure that most of you can, too. I don't want to be the one taking this to the Supreme Court--if the stakes are high enough, that is where it will go.

Owenwetsel, we've lived in our Montana fulltime since we bought it 7/04. We're currently waiting for parts to have the frame repaired for the fourth time. Glad you aren't having problems with yours. We lived in our previous 5W, a '94 Kit Road Ranger, for 11 years with few problems.
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Old 12-15-2007, 02:08 AM   #30
richfaa
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I understand where mobilvn is coming from. We went through the same thing when looking for a new camper. Example it may be said that right now and for the next 3 months we are "residential" as we are not moving anywhere and are living in the 3400. However on the 1100 miles down here we were"recreational" as we moved from place to place. However what does "residential " mean... There is a Terry a few spots up that is up on a concrete block foundation and is obviously set up as a permanent residence. There are campers that are rated for "Fulltime use" but they were out of our price range..IMO if we are using these campers for full time or long time use we are using them in a manner they were not designed to be used , we should know that and we are taking the chance. We still think the Montana is as good as any other in the price range for full time, long time use. As far as legal definitions go we are at the mercy of the legal system. We have a very good Attorney friend who will say..."if I have to represent you in court please don't be doing something dumb that will make it difficult for me to do so." mobilvn's caution is a good thing.The individual makes the choice...He will make his.
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Old 12-15-2007, 02:29 AM   #31
Delaine and Lindy
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I understand what your saying Richfaa, However I really never gave it a though. The 1 year warranty provided by Keystone went so fast never was concerned about being full timing in the Cambridge. All the people at the service center at Keystone factory (Camp Keystone) knew we were living in the 5er. Its just a C.Y.A. thing for Thor or Keystone. I never took our Cambridge back to the Dealership and will never go there again. We were at the Keystone service twice and had 2 issues that had to be repaired. Keystone always treated us very good. Never ask for anything we didn't get. For the Money Keystone has a good product. But the Quality Control is another thing we let happen. We don't push hard enough when we buy RV's and that includes all RV's from the Teton on down. Have fun, life is good. GBY......

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Old 12-16-2007, 05:28 AM   #32
Glenn and Lorraine
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Ya know we can continue to try to hammer our message home about Montana not caring if we full time but some just don't seem to want to listen to actual experience and would rather just go by the book and that's fine. It's their rig and their money to do with as they so please.
I am no lawyer but as far as the legal aspect of the books actual wording the lawyers can argue this right up to the Supreme Court if they will but I do believe there is also a term called "Past Practices". I seriously doubt that even if they wanted to Keystone could find any reason to refuse a full time Montana owner's situation that they have not already had an experience with in the past and that was rectified without court action.
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Old 12-16-2007, 05:40 AM   #33
richfaa
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The problem is in definition.....'In North American English the term recreational vehicle, and its acronym RV, are generally used to refer to an enclosed piece of equipment dually used as both a vehicle and a temporary travel home.

RVs are intended for everything from brief leisure activities such as vacations and camping, to full-time living, for which they are often parked in special trailer parks. (However, many trailer parks are reserved just for mobile homes, not to be confused with RVs/motorhomes.) RVs can also be rented in most major cities and tourist areas.".... We get the terms RV, residential unit,mobile home confused... There is a big difference between a unit used as a Rv or rated for full time usage and one used as a residential unit.This is the primary reason for the 400 sq foot figure for a Rv..Over that and you are a.. residential , park model, mobile home and are subject to many different manufacturing rules and regs. You may see a Rv that is Rated for full time use but will not say rated for residential use. These are two completly different units. It is obvious that a RV is not designed as a "residential unit" and if we choose to use them in that manner we do so at our own risk. Keystone understands that and the definition is clear.We told them we live in our 3400 6 to 7 months of the year and put 12 to 15K miles a year on it.. It did not affect our Warranty nor does it affect our extended warranty nor does it affect the warranty of any of the vendor provided units in the camper...
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