How to Fix a Noisy Water Pump - Montana Owners Club

Montana_2730 · 01-29-2005, 12:06 PM

Since it is a overcast day here in New braunfels Texas I decided to fix the Jake Brake that supplys us water. I have included a few pictures of the install. We had a few trailers with the nosiy pump situtation but none of them cost what this one did (2005 - 2955). So rather than complaint to the dealer I set off to fix it myself. You cannot even hear this pump working when it is on standing at the sink. While I was in the area I decided to tidy up after the original Keystone installtion.

The first picture shows what the old pump looks like compared to the new. The new pump is a Shurflo Smart Sensor 5.7 with an Extreme Strainer attached. The new pump is significantly larger. But it pumps water at 4.5 GPM. You can take a shower and run the sink at the same time. No accumlator is need with this system. It is a five valve pump that senses the demand for water.

The second picture shows the pump install from the entry looking under the cabinet. I have not figured out why Keystone did not install a panel to divide the pump from the storage area.

The third picture looks at the pump from the kitchen sink.

The fourth picture shows the mod I did to hold the winterizing hose up and out of the way. You would of thought Keystone would have thought of this.

I wrapped all the lines with pipe insulation and Amorcore left over from the last mod I did last weekend. The cost to do the mod was:

Pump $188.00 Camping Worl
Strainer $17.00 Camping World
Nylon Hose $6.00 Home Depot
Barb Fittings $1.80 x 2
Marine Clamps $.87 x 4 Home Depot
Pipe Insulation $1.60 x 2 Home Depot
Misc. Hardware $5.00

Three hours of my time start to finish.

rames14 · 01-29-2005, 03:09 PM

Travelingman -

Very nicely done. Thanks for sharing. The pictures, materials list and pricing were great touches. Answered all of my questions. Great job - enjoy your new quiet water supply.

DHenry · 01-29-2005, 03:35 PM

Nice job, Nice pictures. Thanks.

sreigle · 01-29-2005, 05:11 PM

Very clean looking installation. Thanks for sharing. Looks like you have a decent sized compartment with good access to work with. Ours is a bit tighter.

HamRad · 01-29-2005, 06:22 PM

travelingman,
Great pics and a great job. If only we could get Keystone folks to do the same type work!

Of course this means my next job will be to install a new super quiet water pump in our rig! Talked it over with the wife and she said that we were definitely going to get that one done! She does not like the noise our current pump makes.

HamRad

Montana_2785 · 01-29-2005, 11:57 PM

The reference to a "Jake Brake" is right on the money. On my 2002 3575RL, the pump is under the 'fridge and there isn't a very good access hole to it. I can't believe that something that retails for almost $50K will make that kind of noise....

You better believe that quieting this beast down is rather high on my list of Things-To-Do. I'm saving this thread!

Eric

Montana_2730 · 01-30-2005, 02:13 AM

What struck me as odd when I did the belly pan removal last weekend and the pump modification this weekend, is the pump location. When we looked at all the Montanas before buying one, all the pumps were in different locations and they all have a common problem. If you look at the pictures you'll see that Keystone brings the supply line from the tank thru the floor to the pump. The part that does not make sense is they then run the supply lines back out into the belly to the shower and lavatory. My question is why?????????? If it is leaks they are worried about I am not following the rational. These lines could have run down the right wall to those locations and been protected by the heat of the inside. That is the way my less expensive trailers have been.

The pump should have commonality across the platforms. Most of these pumps needed to be within 10 feet or less to pump water from the tank. Most of the tanks are at the back of the trailer. After having seen the tank and its location, in my professional opinion it would be better to just put the pump in the belly with a shield around it and a marine access cover thru the belly faring to get to it for service. This location would eliminate lines coming thru the floor and then back out again. When you look at my pictures half of the storage is wasted because of the pump location and water lines. Cross platform commonality would make servicing and installing much easier. It also would eliminate noise problems since the pump would be located outside the living space.

Freezing of the water lines is going to take place regardless if the pump is under the kitchen counter or in the belly in my Montana the picture prove that. Real estate is a precious commodity in these riggs. After seeing where some of these pumps are and seeing just how Keystone installs them. My vote is for find a common location in the belly and put the pump at that location. It would be interesting to hear back how many people like the location of their pump and its serviceability?

One more thing, I love the spell check feature, this will be my first time using it. Sometimes my one fingered typing is too fast for my brain.

sreigle · 01-30-2005, 12:29 PM

The pump on ours is very close to the tank, which is in the middle of the coach. Our model may be different from others, though.

I'd still bet on freeze protection being the reason the lines go back into the belly. The belly has a furnace duct to help keep things from freezing and that's not the case in the walls. We still have line freezing problems in the belly but I'm convinced it's because some of the lines are lying on the frame. When we've frozen up we've still had cold water from pump to bathroom sink and toilet. The lines that go to the rear of the coach, to the water heater and sink, are the ones that freeze. I could be wrong but this is how it appears to me.

Jim B · 01-30-2005, 12:37 PM

Travelingman, What PSI does the new pump put out? Very nice looking installation. 2004 2955RL.

Montana_2730 · 01-30-2005, 04:48 PM

Jim, Sorry for the late reply. The pump can go to as high as 65PSI. It monitors your demand and as Emerald says "kicks it up a notch" if you need more power. Here is a link to the specs on the pump. Look towards the bottom of the specification and download the product brochure.

http://www.shurflo.com/pages/RV/rv_p...5900-0201.html

Bill and Ann · 02-01-2005, 01:41 AM

Nice upgrade. When you have a spare 3 hrs. let me know.

Jim B · 02-01-2005, 03:54 PM

ddd

Jim B · 02-01-2005, 04:00 PM

Travelingman, Have you had any leaks with this new pump. The reason I am asking is that our systems are only suppose to have 45 to 50 PSI supplied to them. Also have you used the new pump very much? Has the spray out of the shower in proved. When you ordered the pump did the recommend buying the filter also? A lot of questions I know. LOL Roger on the Jake Brake, really is a noisy pump. To darn noisy for us. Terrific pictures thanks. 2004 2955 2004 Dodge DRW HO Cummins.

Bill Hill · 02-01-2005, 04:41 PM

Ours sounds like a Jake Brake too. Our dealer is trying to get Keystone to authorize them to do a fix: new higher capacity water pump and isolating the water lines in the wall behind the shower. If we can't get that done, may go the route you've shown. Get job with the pictures.

Montana_2730 · 02-02-2005, 05:31 AM

Jim B,

I am sorry for not getting back to you sooner. Since the installation is a week old, it has only seen a weeks worth of work. The difference in sound and vibration into the surrounding systems is unbeleivable. You can not hear this pump. I can only speak for my water system when it comes to pressures. My water system uses PEX tubing and fittings from Flair-It. Here is a link to their website www.flair-it.com. These are standard on the 2005. When you go to this site you'll see a map of the US. Click on the wording for the different regions and it will take you to their catalog.

PEX tubing has the capabilites to withstand pressures way beyond the maximum pressure the pump can place (65 PSI) on a close system. 160PSI @ 74 deg, 100 PSI @ 180 degrees, and 80 PSI @ 200 degrees. Where pressure really comes in to play on these RV systems is when you use city/park water which can be unregulated. It is important to know that all these pumps use a flexible diaphragm as a means of pumping the water. It is these valves that are suspetible to unregulated water pressure. So when connected to city water use a pressure regulator. As far as the system pressures when on a closed system using this pump, my unit can take it.

You will not notice any appreciable difference in the shower flow when taking a shower with no other appliances on. However, when turning the kitchen faucet on the pump kicks it up a notch to maintain the same flow as if the sink was not on. I do not recommend buying any more devices for the water system then you really need. They will all add up and cause loss of flow. I did add the extreme filter to this pump to catch any large debris which could harm the pump. You can clean the filter screen on this since it is stainless. I hope this answers your questions.

sreigle · 02-02-2005, 06:01 AM

Jim B, we have used an adjustable water pressure regulator for the past couple of years including 22 months of fulltiming. I have the regulator set at 57 psi. Any more than that and flush water in the toilet tends to spray out of the toilet. We've had no leaks in the water lines at all. Just wanted to add this info.

Jim B · 02-16-2005, 03:11 AM

I went on to Shurflo Web site and down loaded the installation instructions for installing the Extreme Smart Sensor 4.0 water pump. Quote ( For noise and vibration reduction we recommend at least 18 inches of 1/2 I.D. flexible high-pressure tubing to both ports. The pump ports and the strainer SHOULD NOT be connected to plastic or rigid pipe.) Wouldn't one think that Keystone would be smart enough to follow Shurflo instructions. All my other 5th wheels had flex tubing on the pump. I am going to put flex tubing on my present pump to see if it makes a difference (when I take it out of winter storage. Maybe Keystone will pick up on this.

sreigle · 02-16-2005, 04:51 AM

I guess we got the other end of the spectrum. Not one of ours had the flex tubing. All had the rigid/plastic piping connected to the pump. I plan to change ours to the flex pipe one of these days. We don't use the pump frequently enough for it to be a high priority but I do want to get this done.

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