50 amp extension cord(s) - Montana Owners Club

dsprik · 07-06-2006, 06:11 AM

I am trying to get an estimate on 50 amp extension cords (want the ability to run 2 A/Cs over a 8 week period). I see there are plenty of 30 ft cords, but I will need about 75 ft. This financially kills the 30 ft sections solution. I thought I found a 75' extension, but now I cannot re-locate it on the web.

Where can I find the least expensive solution for this? Must be 50 amp. Montana's cord is 35 ft, and my run is going to have to be an EXTRA 75 ft (need ~ 100 ft just for clarification)

2nd clarification: Yes, I have already gotten an estimate for trenching and running underground and installing a new box w/i reach of the Monty cord. So I'm on to my next idea...

stiles watson · 07-06-2006, 06:54 AM

Any reputable electrician or electrical service company can make up any length cable you want. It seems to me that 75 feet of 50 amp cable would be unwieldy. Have you considered two 35 ft. sections? Of course, if you are leaving that 75 footer in place, it is a moot point.

CountryGuy · 07-06-2006, 06:57 AM

Dave, Al tells me you have to watch out for drops in Voltage or ampherage, or what ever, in long runs of distance like you are talking! He is not around, so I cannot ask him about the numbers game. Bet some of these electrical engineer types will happen along and be able to quote you all kinds of numbers!

All I know is when he ran the electrical for the pole barn, a run of about 90 feet (give or take, you know ole Carol's memory) that he had to up the size of the wire to handle the drop for that distance. It cost us a considerable hunk of coin more than if the barn had been, say 35 feet from the house.

We only run a small electric cord to Montana, about 50 foot or so from the garage. But, we do NOT even attempt to turn on the A/C. If, on occassion, we have moved Tana around and she is much closer to the house, and we really have a need to run th A/C, then we do so, with as few extension cords as possible, the shortest run possible, and the largest cord possible.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised that unless you have the heat wave from he*% in Michigan you will not need to run 2 A/C units at the same time. We have camped in Iowa in horrid 100 plus heat and managed on 1 A/C. Two A/C units probably would have been better, but we managed. We have yet to find we need more than the one A/C in Michigan. NOTE: disclaimer YET!

That said, your tolerances may be totally different than ours, and you may feel you NEED the 2nd A/C.

But, that 100 foot distance is gonna take the right size cord, that is for sure!

Carol

dsprik · 07-06-2006, 07:31 AM

Thanks, Stiles, and yes, it will stay in place, we will not be carrying it with us. We plan on just coiling it up on the side of the house when we are gone.

Carol, the voltage drop is my main concern, too. It would be better if we could find a single 75 ft length extension cord - that way I know it would be designed to handle the voltage for that distance.

For some odd geologic reason, it sometimes get hotter/more humid here than anywhere else in the midwest, and in Mich, sometimes. We had some days with heat from Hades last summer. We had trouble keeping it minimally comfortable in a newly built house we were in last summer, with the A/C running wide open day & night. I am sure that 2 A/Cs running wide open in the Monty on those several days would have been a struggle. Worse than FL in the summer sometimes with the humidity so thick you can't hardly breathe (do love those Great Lakes, though). There's a joke around here about humans in these parts starting to adapt gills just to breathe outside in the summer...

I know we will need 2 A/Cs. Actually, the last few summers have had some unbearable days - for N. Mich.

CountryGuy · 07-06-2006, 07:56 AM

Dave, maybe you need to move to southern Michigan. We get some humid miserable days, but, we don't need gills!

dsprik · 07-06-2006, 10:01 AM

Thanks, Carol for the invite - do you have a 50 amp hookup for visitors? Just kidding.

I think the problem with all the humidity comes from two places - combination of the prevailing winds coming off of Lake Michigan, and the amount of trees/forests in N. MI. The trees are the reason for the "Smokey Mtns". Transpiration coming off the trees adds huge amounts of water (humidity) into the air.

Parrothead · 07-06-2006, 10:25 AM

Dave
I would really wait and see if you need it. It is going to cost you plenty and never be used again. We were in Mesquite NV for two days on asphalt with 110 temp. Our 1 AC did fine and it got so cold in the bedroom I had to get up and get a blanket. Granted this is much dryer heat than Michigan but still very hot.
Happy trails...............................

dsprik · 07-06-2006, 11:09 AM

Thanks, Sue. I'm considering that, but if I find out that 30 amp won't cut it, then I'll have the expense of two 50 ft 30 amp cords ($150+) that I'll never need, and I'll still have to go out and rig up 50 amp cords and pay for them. We are kind of locked into where we are at, unless I can find another place close to Alden here (maybe a possibility).

rickety · 07-06-2006, 11:45 AM

Dave, I'm not and electrician, but Ihave been told that voltage drop will cause motors and compressors to heat up and evetually fail, and also that amperage loss will cause th esame thing. If you can, go to a larger wire size and put the proper ends on it for 50 amp.Just my opinion

Good luck!!!

Broome101 · 07-06-2006, 11:48 AM

Dave,
you can go like Stiles said to any electrical house and get 6/4 SO cord and make yourself up a cord any length you will need. If you go over 75-90 feet you will need to go up a size in cable to at least a 4 gauge if you can find it more than likely a #2 gauge wire. May check with Lowes and Home Depot to see what size wire they offer. For it to be flexible it will need to be SO cord. If you can find aluminum wire 32 that would be your cheapest bet.

Parrothead · 07-06-2006, 12:28 PM

Dave you may well use a 30 amp extension cord when you start full timing. We use to always carry an extension cord with us until we forgot it at a campground once. Several places we use to go to needed one. We haven't missed it but knowing we don't have it we just make sure ours reaches. When we were in Montana we had to keep moving the unit to reach the box and it was a newer really nice park. There are still a lot of CW that only offer 30 amps and a lot of those are set up for our long units. We only get picky about the amps when we are going to be someplace for a week or so.
Happy trails.........................

Charlie · 07-06-2006, 02:08 PM

Dave-
I understand your desire to run two A/C's and what it would take to properly power your Montana. My personal preference would be to run standard wire to a receptacle box that would accept your 50 amp cord. This will allow you to control and have an acceptable loss of current before you get to your trailer.

However, I have never been to Michigan so I can not compare the humidity up there with what we have in the South. As everyone that lives within 50 miles of the Gulf Coast, be it in Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama or Florida and on the Atlantic side of Florida and Georgia can attest to the humidity in the South. Daily the humidity is 80-95% unless it is raining and then it is 100%. The television stations also give another number in the summer relating to conditions outside and that is a dew point.

For the next two to three months the dew points daily will be 70-80 degrees. Inside the stick house we hold the temperature with the A/C about 75 degrees. A 75 degree dew point outside will immediately fog your eye glasses when you step out the door. At 75 degrees dew point, after 15 minutes outside you feel like someone has sprayed you with sugar water. Not only are you soaking wet, but it leaves a person very sticky. Does this come close to being accepted into the Michigan "gill" society?

Sweetfire · 07-06-2006, 02:34 PM

Dave, just out of curiosity, what was the quote for the trenching and having a 50 amp service installed in your area?

dsprik · 07-06-2006, 06:19 PM

Dennis, I was looking at $700-$1000. For 8 weeks - not worth it. At least with ext cords, I can store them for if the need arises in the future. There are several friends in this part of the country that have land that we can stay at during the summer months. It will cost me $35 to rig a 50 amp "quick disconnect" at their electrical box. Beats $400-$800 per month CGs around here. We will spend a lot of our FTing living in this area in the summer months.

Charlie, I have been to Mobile, AL in July. When We pulled into the hotel, I asked the clerk if it was always this hot here. He said no, this was a record. Great. Still had a great weekend, though. I went for my final engeering ceritfication for a month in Aug in Houston. That was probably the worst I've experienced. 3-4 showers per day. I was also stationed in Liberal, KS (on the OK panhandle) for 3 years. First summer I worked out there (Oilfield engineer) they set a record for the most consecutive days over 100 degrees (93). That of course is dry heat.

Once, after my summer vacation up in N. MI (while living in SW KS) I remember thinking I was going to have a heat stroke packing in MI to leave - 88 degrees/90% humidity (can't remember dew pt). I was miserable. When I arrived in Liberal, I unpacked the car. Knew it was hot, but I was much more comfortable. Went and looked at the thermometer when I was done and it was at 112 degrees. I don't like humidity.

Guys, I really like your idea of making my own cord up. #4 will be the wire size, for sure. I will check for 50 amp ends. I will follow the advice lited in all your posts - SO, etc.

Sue, I agree with you on the 30 amp problem in many CGs/areas yet. The problem I have psychologically with 30 amp (and I know that 50 amp cord is NOT "user friendly"), is that I waffled for a year back and forth on this forum, debating whether or not I needed that 2nd A/C. I was finally convinced (you may remember the thread). I made my final decision just before I put in my order for our 3400. Now, trying to slide back to 30 amp service as a first choice setup (and I will use it - but not where 50 amp is available), seems to me that I am now saying that I shouldn't have ordered that 2nd A/C. Not sure if I explained that right, hope you understand what I'm trying to say. I guess it would basically negate my final decision that I had put so much effort into.

Parrothead · 07-06-2006, 07:18 PM

Dave, I do understand but I was talking about the few weeks you will need the longer cord. We don't do 30 amps as first choice, we just aren't as picky about choosing a campground or site with 50 if we are only going to be there 1 night. We have had units with 30 amps and it is so nice with the 50 not to worry about unplugging the coffee pot to run the toaster!
Happy trails.........................

dsprik · 07-06-2006, 07:35 PM

I'll think about that, Sue. This cost would be markedly less with a 30 amp run. On the other side of my brain, I'm thinking of last summer, and about the fact that those 8 weeks will be right at the worst possible time for uncomfortable weather up here. I'll check into costs both ways and see what I come up with.

CountryGuy · 07-07-2006, 05:29 AM

Dave,

Al was reading this thread this AM and went and found this neat little calculator:

http://www.elec-toolbox.com/calculators/voltdrop.htm

First set the parameters, 120 volts, single phase, copper wire. Next:

He points out that you need to include in your measurements the distance of wiring that runs in your unit TO the convertor. Ok, so that is from the entry point where you plug in ON your rig to the convertor. On our unit that adds about 20 foot of wiring that must be figured into any calculation that we do.

Now, you need to add another measurement, that being from where you will plug the extension cord in (say the garage) back to the circuit breaker in the house (basement?). How many feet is that??

Now, add to that the about 75 feet of extension cord you need.

Just doing some fussing with this web site, we find that if you need 74 feet or more of total wiring, you will need # 4 wire. IF you go to say 117 feet or more of required length of wiring, you will need # 3 wire.

Now, go calculating and enjoy!

Carol (with much assistance from the real Countryguy, Al!!)

CountryGuy · 07-07-2006, 05:33 AM

Remember to add the 35 foot cord that comes with Montana, that is a lot of distance you are trying to cover there Dave!

Let us know what you come up with.

Cheers, Carol

Sweetfire · 07-07-2006, 06:41 AM

Dave, sounds about right, I just paid $1,700.00 for a 200 foot, dual 50 amp installation.

dsprik · 07-07-2006, 06:52 AM

Thanks Carol (and Al)! The breaker would be right at the disconnect - at the end of the 74 ft. Right now the number$ are running very expensive, and I am confusing some hardware stores as they think I'm talking about 220v service (not unless I've got REAL good warranties on all my appliances - and Montana - and possibly good life ins).

I am going out to another friends property tonight, He may have a closer setup.

I also called Montana Customer relations and talked to the tech people. They initally did think much of me adding distance over and above the 35'. I thought, "Yeah... right!" I know what I'm doing! Actually, when I told them I was planning on going to #4 wire, they thought that would work.

So if someone sees a "mushroom cloud" on the distant horizon, you'll know my last words were, "Yeah... Right!" while playing with electricity...

In my REAL life, I am hiring a qualified electrician to do this work. (Come on! Some of you really thought I was stupid enough to try this on my own... didn't you? Admit it...).

I'll report what I find out tonight. I did call a local hdwr and surprisingly they had 100' of 30 amp cord back in their garage. $104. Think it needs ends, though - not sure. At least I know where that is if I need it...

Cheryl's off today, sitting on the beach about 100 yds from our house. She's calling on her cell wanting to know where I'm at (working, I told her...). I will check that website when I get back, Carol...

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