Schematic for Electric Protection Upgrades

[bncinwv]

Well that leads to the next question after reading the note at the bottom. If the input is from 30 amp (one hot only) generator or shore is the switch going to function properly??

[bncinwv]

Mixing topics, sorry, the obstructed view is a direct result of the height of our bike rack. Can't remember our brand but it is tall and hinges down. On ours two wouldn't have been as bad but to me still unacceptable. It did interfere with headlights also, no highbeams, just low with fog lights. At lease it wasn't a high cost learning experience.

[bsmeaton]

Thanks for the Bike info Bingo -

Prior question. Your Iota switch will work fine on your 30A circuit, same as your shore line would if you plugged into a 30A pedestal. The latching of the relays inside the Iota is actually achieved by the voltage, not the amperage.

You have all the right parts in your pic - its the best approach to stay flexible. The only thing you need to do is add another female lead IN to the IOTA switch. One female receives the 50A inlet cord from your gen side, and the other female receives the 50A inlet cord from your autoformer. The way you actually have it now, you don't even need the IOTA as you are just passing one circuit into it and back out without any automatic switching action. You are manually plugging one or the other cord into the single female receptacle that goes into the Iota. The Iota should be doing that for you.

[bncinwv]

Gotcha!!! Sounds like a minor revision to the schematic is in order when I get everything in hand and before installation. Thanks a bunch Brad!! This has now been renamed the HjoBrozzavenn design. Kudos to H. John Kohl, Brad Smeaton, Ozz (Jim James), Dave Sprik and Glenn Adams, would not have even considered this without their's and other MOC forum members input.
Bingo

[Leaseit]

Bingo.... Take a look at the diagram... The question is, if you are making the maneul chnage in case shore power is lost. why would you want the IOTA switch. On shore power loss it would drop to a dead( Open) Ckt anyways. then you would make the manuel plug change to the Gen Set. IF i see this correctly and my logic is sound, i'd send the IOTA box back and save some money. Do i see this correctly???

[bsmeaton]

Yep Leasit, thats the area I was discussing. You are right, the IOTA Switch does nothing here, but I think he already has it installed as part of the gen prep feature by Keystone.

I know Bingo wants to keep the autoformer portable and not hardwire it in, which accounts for the plugs. However, because you already have the Iota, I would just leave the female and male plug for the autoformer to get plugged in, and hardware in the male ind of the 50A lead from the gen straight into the IOTA switch so you don't have to buy yet another female plug.

[bncinwv]

It appears we all are thinking the same way, here is the revised and hopefully final schematic. As always comments appreciated.



Bingo

[Leaseit]

Bingo. yes thats what i'm i was talkng about. Now the IOTA switch is a Active part in the Ckt, not just a drop out to an open ckt.

Brad. Thank you, i didn't know if i was blowing smoke or just not enough coffee this morning. One thing still bothers me about the ITOA Ckt Diagram. If is right, the only ckt the time delay control module is sensing is Generator Hot # 1 and Generator Neutral #2, which seems strange.

[bsmeaton]

you got it Bingo!!

Leaseit, that is strange. That diagram is so bad, I think I would need to actually see the inside to believe some of it.

(the Iota diagram - not Bingo's. Bingo's diagram is booootiful)

[bncinwv]

Now the only problem is adding Leaseit to HjoBrozzavenn and coming up with a pronouncible word?????? Ha Ha!! Regardless, thanks guys.
Bingo

[FRED S]

Hi sorry I am late finding this post.
Have o7 3400 with factory gen prep, it includes a breaker protected conecting box for generator connection which act as a bridge similar to a 50-30 adapter cord providing an easy hook up for 30 amp gen power thru the transfer switch either hard wired or thru a 30A shore power inlet added to the front next to the battery box. I was told to keep this device in place and wired a gen/shore power 30A inlet for my 3000W portable gen.,hope this was correct it seems to operate well and does dr
op out the shore power when the gen is switched on
Fred

[sreigle]

Rickfox, I also would like to hardwire our autoformer inside our 3400 and have the same questions you have. I've not gone very far into this so am talking out of hand. I wonder if the cable can be seen by dropping a few screws in the bellypan and peeking inside the belly?

Also, if I recall from when I looked into buying the autoformer install kit intended for just this application, the instructions were to disconnect the power cord wires from the converter and attach to the wires in the kit. Then take the other wires in the kit and attach them to the lugs where the cable originally connected. The other ends of those wires connected to the inlet and outlet on the autoformer. If this procedure is correct, then we'd need to find a way to run those kit wires to/from the converter to where the autoformer will reside. I'm thinking mine would probably be in the area under the stairs and behind the water pump / convenience center. But this is as far as I've gotten. I'm a bit intimidated by all this.

[rickfox]

Steve,

I believe (with some input from Ozz) that the 50A cable comes from the unbelly and up through the wall that's between the front closet and the bathroom, and terminates on the back of the breaker box. In the near future I plan to remove the breaker box and take a look.

I also was thinking about rerouting this wire into the furnace area or under the steps, and mounting the autoformer there. However, doing so will require pulling the cabling back down the wall to allow the addtion length for rerouting, and then pulling some additional cable back up the wall to provide the reconnection.

My current wild idea is to take a look at mounting the autoformer behind the breaker box and above the ceiling of the front closet (the washer/dryer area). I have been told this is where the inverter is currently located, but that there should be sufficient room up there. If there is sufficient room, my plan would be to install a small door above the folding closet door that would allow easy access to that area. I would install the surge protector up there also. Then using the small door, I could check on things whenever I had a mind to.

With respect to the main thread of conversation, most of the schmatics show the autoformer being connected to the shore power, and then to a series surge protector. Although this seems appropriate for the surge protectors being discussed, it does not address the need for surge protection for the autoformer itself (a $500+ part) - which is highly recommended by Hughes. To me, it looks like one should also consider installing the Intermatic parallel connection surge protector in front of the autoformer. I plan to install one of these in my installation.

In mentioning my idea was wild, I am certainly interested in any comments others might have - because wild ideas can sometimes be stupid ideas.

[bsmeaton]

Rick,

If you have a vent in the ceiling above your washer/dryer space, you most likely have the converter up there. They moved it midyear 2007 to under the stairs, so the vent disappeared.

I don't want to speak for Bingo, but I beleive the surge is downstream of autoformer because he wanted to protect the rig from both sources - generator and shore power. If he moved it to in front of the autoformer, then he would not have protection from the generator, which is probably the greater risk. He did the right thing by not feeding the autoformer with the generator, as those two just don't get along at all.

[bncinwv]

Brad is correct, there are differing opinions on the placement of the surge with regards to the Autoformer. The Autoformer, from my understanding, does have some surge capacity built in. I have learned from this forum that the generator and the Autoformer do not mix. My understanding of these devices are that they are sacrificial on large surges anyway, is this correct??? I have not installed the system yet, and am still open to discussions as to whether or not my plan is the best one or not for use with the generator, Advice or criticism is always welcome.
Bingo

[rickfox]

Brad,

Good info. I have the vent in the ceiling and am certain the inverter is not under the stairs.

With respect to the surge protector issue, many have installed the Intermatic "Whole House" surge protector ahead of the autoformer since its cost is in the range of $100, and it provides an indication when it has given up the ghost in protecting the much more expensive Hughs autoformer. And, depending upon how it is installed, it can be replaced fairly easily. If the internal protection within the autoformer gets cooked, the autoformer must be removed and sent back to the manufacturer for repair. A friend of mine mentioned that it cost over $200 and 1 month to repair his autoformer.

The Intermatic is not meant to replace the HW 50 EMS, but to be considered as in addition to. Its sort of additional insurance if your mindset is that its better for a voltage surge to take out a $100 part, rather than a $500 part.

[timothy]

Bingo, If I want to set mine up like yours then can Burdettes do this for me?

[bncinwv]

Timothy,
They told me they do electric work so I would say yes, I wanted to do mine since it will get me more familiar with the electrics in the rig, I also want to add a receptacle and tv input in the basement. The rig must have gen-set prep (Iota switch) for my schematic to work. Talk to Michelle or Stephanie to make sure though.

Rickfox,
That is a great idea that makes good sense, now I will have to change the schematic, guess I will have to make it like an engineering drawing with revision numbers.

Merry CHRISTmas all.

Bingo