Why Ford/Chevy GVWR and GCWR differ? - Montana Owners Club

David and Jo-Anna · 08-14-2006, 07:50 AM

I recently picked up the 2007 brochures for Ford and Chevy pickups and was surprised to see that Ford still had higher GVWR and GCWR numbers than some of the Chevys--I thought Chevy would have eliminated the gap by now. For example, with the one ton, long bed, diesel, automatic, 4x4 SRW, 3.73 axle, Super/extended cab, configuration, the numbers are as follows:

GVWR-----Ford (11,400#), Chevy (9,800#)
GCWR-----Ford (23,000#), Chevy (22,000#)
payload--Ford (4,100#), Chevy (3,703#)

Does anyone know what, if anything, is different in the Ford to justify the higher numbers--i.e., heavier springs? bigger brakes?

One reason I wonder somewhat about the soundness of the Ford numbers is when I compare 4x4 and 4x2 ratings. With Chevy, going from 4x2 to 4x4 drops the payload by 385#--understandable in terms of the probable extra weight of the 4x4 option. With Ford, however, The payload only drops by 100#--instead, Ford bumps up the GVWR by 400#. Does Ford make some structural change when they add the 4x4 option that supports a higher GVWR? Is the 4x4 accompanied by better brakes such that a Ford with 4x4 can supply more braking for the extra 400# increase in GVWR? Or are they just playing with the GVWR numbers to keep their payload figure up?

David and Jo-Anna Kikel

Cat320 · 08-14-2006, 08:48 AM

I gave up trying to sort all the numbers out. The key numbers are not the GVWR, but the cargo the truck will carry. Ford trucks are very heavy, 600 - 700 heavier than similar brand GMs. The other key number is GCWR...what's the total you can tow. Ford needs higher ratings because they are lugging all that extra weight around. To the guys that say Fords are stronger trucks...could be, but all trucks must meet the same laws and engineering specs in place for that particular model (half ton, 3/4 or 1 ton).

Whatever you do, do not believe the cargo ratings in the brochures...they are grossly inflated and virtually unusable. Most of the time they are for the smallest gasser (thus the lightest engine) resulting a huge cargo capacity and a very low GCWR...they can carry a load, but cannot tow anything.

Can't answer your question if Ford changes anything to warrant all the different GVWRs...don't see how they could, be a mess trying to run a production line, but they must do something. Ford has seven GVWRs for 3/4s, nine for 1 ton SRW and seven for duallys. GM has one rating for each noted above...makes it easier at least.

Also, I think you'll find Chevy's GVWR is 9900, not 9800...unless they have lowered it 100 lbs for 2007.

sreigle · 08-14-2006, 09:10 AM

David, I think I read GM is doing some things for future models so they can raise those numbers. What Ford did, starting with the 2005 models, is go to the frame that's on the F450/F550 for the F250/F350, for one. It's the same thickness, construction design, etc., just adjusted in size for the body.

Ford also put on the larger brakes, which is why 17 inch is the standard wheel size on the F250/F350 now, with 18 and 20 inch optional.

On the 4x4 models there is a new front end with the control arms from the F450/F550. I recently had the front end alignment checked in Fredericksburg, VA, and was told by the guy there that this new front end is the best he's ever seen on this size truck. The 4x2 models still have the older twin I-beam frontend.

So, yes, Ford did some things to allow the higher numbers. Even my F250 has GVWR of 10,000, tow rating of 15,400, and GCWR of 23,000. I'm sure GM and Dodge will catch up before too long on this front.

I haven't seen GM/Dodge weight numbers but figure the comments above are true about Ford being heavier. The changes they made are the reason for that. The F350 you're thinking about has a pretty hefty payload, too, but I don't have those numbers in front of me.

The Fords are heavier than prior to 2005 but not by 3,000 lbs, which is the amount of increase in the GCWR. And the changes do make them stronger than before and stronger than the competition. But, again, that will change before long, no doubt.

One of the Ford brochures shows payload that, if I recall, differs according to engine and equipment. I'd have to find that brochure to verify that but I'm pretty sure. Right now the brochure is buried behind the things we are accumulating for the new fifthwheel and I'm not even going to try to find it.

That all said, all three brands make good trucks that can do the job for you.

See another Montana or Mountaineer on the road? Flash lights twice, it might be one of us!
Steve Reigle (pronounced Regal)
Fulltiming since 3/21/03
'03 3295RK
'05 Ford F250 SD Lariat CC SB 6.0L PSD/TS FX4 4x4

Our RV Travels (now Firefox-compatible)

Wrenchtraveller · 08-14-2006, 09:36 AM

Ford added 300 pounds of weight to the new trucks to get this extra payload. It is not all gain as Ford Superduties are very heavy. My model weighs 7800 pounds just with a full tank and me in the cab. I have the V10 which I have been told is 500 pounds lighter than the diesel. If this is true, my truck would be a whopping 8300 pounds if it were a PSD.

I have 11200 GVWR, the PSD 11,400. I should still have a 300 pound extra payload compared to an identical truck with a PSD. The way they have made thier GVWR engine and model specific is a change from what they did in the past. The increased PSD rating recognizes that the extra engine weight is on the front axle and the rear axle is not affected by this so they can increase the GVWR.

I would think that a GVWR must be backed up with an engineering and design background but it can be very confusing.

Ford also has the built in brake controller as well as the large new payloads. The other's will catch up and possibly surpass Ford. On it goes. The race to build the best.

Don & Donna
Vancouver Island
2005 Ford F350 V10 Lariat CC 4x4 LB SRW 11200 GVWR
2006 Montana 2955RL

click on the little pic to see a big pic

Montana Sky · 08-14-2006, 04:39 PM

David,
These are the numbers I have for the 1 ton GM trucks, came off of page 18/19 on the Sierra brochure. This is on the 2006 models, no 07 brochures were available at the time.

GVWR 9,900 lbs Single wheel
GVWR 11,400 lbs Dual wheel

GCVWR for the 2500HD is 22,000 lbs
GCVWR for the 3500 Dual is 23,500 lbs.

I sure hope they have not dropped the weight ratings for the 07's, =(

2004 Chevy Silverado LT 2500HD CrewCab Duramax
2004 Montana 3400RL

David and Jo-Anna · 08-14-2006, 05:00 PM

Dave--the only number that dropped in the 2007 Chevy brochure is the GVWR of the 3500 SRW, which is now 9800#. The rest of the numbers you quoted are the same in the 2007 brochure. Don't know why Chevy didn't follow Ford's lead and just bump the GVWR up rather than down.

Still looking to see if anyone knows how Ford supports bumping up the GVWR for the 4x4 by 400# rather than drop the payload.

David and Jo-Anna Kikel

Montana Sky · 08-14-2006, 06:01 PM

David,
Thank you for updating me on that change. Sure makes me hope the "new" 07.5 model year will have a higher payload on the 2500HD's and the 3500's. Seems the 07 Classics are basically the same as the 06. GM needs to catch up to Ford on the GVWR and the CGVWR, we know the Duramax and Allison can handle it. =)

2004 Chevy Silverado LT 2500HD CrewCab Duramax
2004 Montana 3400RL

Wrenchtraveller · 08-15-2006, 03:22 AM

David, on your last question, just guessing that the new 4x4 front end is so much heavier than the 4x2s, maybe that is the reason for the extra 400 lb increase in GVWR.

One last point about that new 4x4 front end. It rides decent enough on pavement, but what a bone crusher on washboard gravel. My 04 4x4 with the old front leaf springs rode much better.
this might be due to my V10 being a little too light for such a stiff front end.

I have been a Ford guy all my life, I learned to drive on a 55 Ford pickup and you just get used to a truck ride I guess.
We drove a loaded up GMC Duramax/Allison. It was a terrific truck with many luxury features not available on Fords but the two things I could not get used to were the mirrors and that incredible car-like ride.

Don & Donna
Vancouver Island
2005 Ford F350 V10 Lariat CC 4x4 LB SRW 11200 GVWR
2006 Montana 2955RL

click on the little pic to see a big pic

Montana Sky · 08-15-2006, 07:32 AM

That is one of the greatest things about the GM products, Don
that car like ride... =)

The 2006 GM's now have mirrors that are more like the Ford mirrors. I personally HATE the mirrors on my 04, was sure glad to see GM follow Ford on those.

2004 Chevy Silverado LT 2500HD CrewCab Duramax
2004 Montana 3400RL

BirdingRVer · 08-15-2006, 08:42 AM

To Montana Sky you wrote:

"Sure makes me hope the "new" 07.5 model year will have a higher payload on the 2500HD's and the 3500's. Seems the 07 Classics are basically the same as the 06. GM needs to catch up to Ford on the GVWR and the CGVWR, we know the Duramax and Allison can handle it. =)"

Over in the Diesel Place forum there is a continuing discussion of why it would be better to buy a 2007 Classic with the current engine rather than wait for 2007.5 and get the ultra low sulfur only engine. Is there a particular reason why you are choosing to wait for the 2007.5?

Wrenchtraveller · 08-15-2006, 09:27 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Montana Sky

That is one of the greatest things about the GM products, Don
that car like ride... =)

The 2006 GM's now have mirrors that are more like the Ford mirrors. I personally HATE the mirrors on my 04, was sure glad to see GM follow Ford on those.

2004 Chevy Silverado LT 2500HD CrewCab Duramax
2004 Montana 3400RL

Thanks Dave, I always enjoy your posts.....well, most of them,LOL.

Don & Donna
Vancouver Island
2005 Ford F350 V10 Lariat CC 4x4 LB SRW 11200 GVWR
2006 Montana 2955RL

click on the little pic to see a big pic

Cat320 · 08-15-2006, 10:25 AM

I do not necessarily agree with the comment that GM needs to increase their GVWRs to keep up with Ford. See my first paragraph, earlier post...that extra truck weight is cutting into Ford's actual cargo and what it can get into it's GCWR.

sreigle · 08-15-2006, 03:23 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by David and Jo-Anna

Dave--the only number that dropped in the 2007 Chevy brochure is the GVWR of the 3500 SRW, which is now 9800#. The rest of the numbers you quoted are the same in the 2007 brochure. Don't know why Chevy didn't follow Ford's lead and just bump the GVWR up rather than down.

Still looking to see if anyone knows how Ford supports bumping up the GVWR for the 4x4 by 400# rather than drop the payload.

David and Jo-Anna Kikel

David, it just about has to be that the 4x4 has the new very strong frontend and the 4x2 has the older twin I-beam frontend. Yes, it's heavier but the gain in strength outweighs the gain in weight.

Likewise on the GCWR. The gain in strength and thus GCWR is considerably more than the gain in weight. GCWR increased 3,000 pounds. The truck did not gain 3,000 pounds. Bottom line is total weight can be up to 23,000 pounds on the F250 and F350. If you get the Tow Boss option then GCWR is something like 26,000 or maybe 26,500 in the F350 dually.

Wrenchtraveler, maybe ours is somehow different but we've done many miles of backroad washboard roads with our 4x4 and the ride is much improved over the older twin I-beam frontend Fords we've had. Much improved. You may be right it's engine weight that makes the difference.

See another Montana or Mountaineer on the road? Flash lights twice, it might be one of us!
Steve Reigle (pronounced Regal)
Fulltiming since 3/21/03
'03 3295RK
'05 Ford F250 SD Lariat CC SB 6.0L PSD/TS FX4 4x4

Our RV Travels (now Firefox-compatible)

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