front end flexing - Page 2 - Montana Owners Club

Exnavydiver · 10-19-2010, 06:48 PM

The answer to one of your questions (Does this happen to other rigs) is a resounding yes. In the last three weeks I have seen three New Horizons which are supposed to be built like permastone privies with severe frame flex fractures. Two were less then a year old and one was 6 years old. A Mobile Suite 2 years old and a Carraige one year old. And it isn't just Lippert Frames either, the New Horizon folks build their own frames. Get a hold of Keystone Service Like they have said and get names and numbers so you can have the "tool" service writer call somebody who knows what is going on...

Doug and Lorraine · 10-22-2010, 01:10 PM

My husband called Keystone, again and explained everything, again. But they did give the go ahead to take the front end apart but may not pay for it. She said it's a case by case thing. Hubby called the dealership today and was told it probably won't be til next week before they can start since they're so busy. Hubby replied it took 2 weeks to get an appointment and they've had it almost a week. He said nothing. We were told when we dropped it off that there was a brake recall on some expensive motor home they sell and their phone has been ringing non-stop.I'm sure we are not high on their priority list since we did not buy our trailer there since they didn't carry Montanas at the time. Here's hoping!

Doug and Lorraine · 10-26-2010, 01:16 PM

Well, we've heard back from Keystone after the assessment was made. We were made an "offer". Keystone will totally repair all the damage, including the interior damage. The catch is we have to take it to the factory in Indiana. We live in New Jersey! And it won't be until January or February. They also told us they would pay for us to stay for how long it will take (she said 4-5 days). We are not retired so this means we have to take time off from work (hubby does not have paid vacations, sick days or personal days.) Hubby asked what other options are there and she said "none". What is the weather like in that area at that time of year? We are estactic that they are willing to do it all for free but....... I'm sure we will do it but another question I have is "is it safe to tow?" especially on such a long trip. Weather is so iffy around here at that time of year, I would suspect it's worse ""up there, Any info or thoughts?

Desert RVer · 10-26-2010, 02:33 PM

Well, it appears to me they are making an offer that forces you to stay with what you started with. Not a pleasant situation or even really acceptable but you are in a box and Montana knows it. Maybe see if you can get Montana to build a fire under the dealer where you have it now. Unfortunately you are in the situation where you only have unacceptable options so maybe taking the lesser of the two evils is your only choice. Do you have any other dealer options to you?

Illini Trekker · 10-26-2010, 03:32 PM

I'm guessing they will not let you put the repairs off till latter in the year? If they would the weather would improve, Indiana could get a lot of snow that time of winter.

8.1al · 10-26-2010, 04:19 PM

I think Keystone has made you a very good offer considering the age of your unit. It is unfortunate that you will have to take time off from work but they are willing to pay for your stay which I think is fantastic. How many manufacturers would do all this for you? The weather could be a problem and there is no way of knowing ahead of time what it will be like. I would call them back and express your concerns about the weather and see if something can't be worked out

HamRad · 10-26-2010, 05:12 PM

I'm with Charlie on this issue. The offer actually sounds too good to be true! As far as the distance goes --- New Jersey to Goshen is not all that far. Imagine what we West Coasters think! Weather wise I think you will just have to take your chances. While it may be a bad time to travel you might get lucky and have good weather.

Find out how Keystone plans on handling the lodging issue.

While it would be nice if you could get them to pay for a local repair you will be more than happy with taking it to Goshen. I've never had my rig in their repair facility but have had several friends who have and they all have been very pleased.

It is great to see Keystone stepping up and taking care of this issue for you. It is something they really should do!

Good luck.
Dennis

timbuktu78 · 10-27-2010, 06:32 AM

I have a very similar problem on my 2010. When not hooked up to the truck, the gap nearly closes. When hooked up the gap opens up nice and wide. It's worse on the passenger side than on the driver's side. I already had it repaired once in which they said the screws holding the molding were stripped, although you can't see screws when looking at the molding. That repair didn't make a bit of difference. I haven't noticed anything moving on the inside, just a squeeky floor that we've had since we bought it new last year and the closet rod ripping out of the wall, but I figure that bc the DW has too many clothes hanging

.

CmdrDewey · 10-27-2010, 06:51 AM

You have been made a very attractive offer. Get it to the factory. Yes it is probably safe to drive. I hauled mine from Tampa Fl to Goshen with worse symptoms then yours. Try to arrange a more convenient time to take it to them. Maybe late April or early May. Remember, in dealing with the Service Center, ATTITUDE IS EVERYTHING. I'm guessing you will get way more than you expect, almost everyone does. You have other options, hire someone to haul it up for you, get a friend to do it, take an unpaid week off (You are going to get $1,000's of dollars in free repairs)you get the idea, be creative.

The attitude that Keystone has you in a box and you are scre--d. is WRONG, Wrong and Wrong

Desert RVer · 10-27-2010, 08:11 AM

CmdrDewey,

I beg to differ. This is a well known and fully documented Keystone/Montana manufacturing defect. There is nothing free here. I see no reason why an owner who has purchased in good faith needs to pay for a known manufacturing defect. An upfront and ethical approach would be for the manufacturer to pay the expenses to get the RV to the factory or find a local dealer who can handle the necessary repairs in a timely fashion. Yes, it would be nice for the owner to look at this as an opportunity for a little adventure but turns out to be considerably more than that and is quite expensive for them to return the unit to the factory. Yes, other manufacturers may have washed their hands of an out of warranty unit but this issue is well known and documented and a manufacturer who touts themselves as the largest RV manufacturer has some responsibility to live up to that reputation. Depending on how many welds have broken, a long trip such as this may also be somewhat dangerous and introduce more damage that may not get repaired adequately or properly. I would suggest some more negotiation to limit the risks and expenses for the owner. This so called attractive offer can be compared to rebates in that the manufacturer offers rebates to get the item purchased and knows full well that only a small percentage will actually file for the rebate. This offer would not be made without the Manufacturer realizing they have a significant liability. All that needs to be established now is how much that liability really is. A little negotiating might mitigate some of the extra expenses currently being faced. PS: There are many RV haulers who transport new units from Goshen to this owners area and then deadhead back to Indiana. I'm sure that Montana could negotiate a very low cost transport back to the factory. Lots of ways to skin this cat.

GaryM · 10-27-2010, 03:15 PM

We are currently in the same situation with our 3665RE. We started to notice the wall between the closet and cupboard in the bedroom started to crack then bust up. The cap shows signs of lowering just above the hitch 1/2" to 3/4". We are currently in Kelowna B.C and nine days ago we had our dealer look at the RV for two days. They have no idea what is causing the problem. They removed the fiberglass skin under the nose and looked at all the welds, they say nothing is broken. Well today I spent the day measuring everything while it was on and off the truck. It appears to me that the front portion of the shell has sagged now 1/4" to 3/8". The hitch will flex up 3/4" to 1" once I take the load off the legs. Today I also got a chance too talk to the factory in Pendleton and we are in the process of setting up a repair day. Looks like it will happen sometime in April on our way back up to Canada. But this is not going to slow me down or stop me from attending the MOC in Q. See ya all soon.

richfaa · 10-27-2010, 03:39 PM

Wait a moment..They said they would pay for everything.. The service center is the best and IMO the only place to have it done correctly. You might negotiate for a better time say March or April.Their offer to repair the Rv at minimual cost to you is a good offer and they have done the same for others. It will cost you Diesl fuel but you will get thousands of $$ in repair work done and have a like new RV when you leave. Many of us have been there and done that. We know ....

"The attitude that Keystone has you in a box and you are scre--d. is WRONG, Wrong and Wrong" .... Absolutly....

Desert RVer · 10-27-2010, 06:20 PM

If I am understanding this correctly the cost to the owner is a long ways from free.... time off from work, cost of travel to and from Goshen which is allot more than just diesel fuel. Plus the possibility of more damage and risk on the way. I'm not denyiong that an attractive offer has been made if it wasn't so expensive for the owner to obtain it. I'm just suggesting that maybe a better deal for the owwner can be achieved with some negotiating. The manufactuer has built a defective unit. That shouldn't cost the owner more expense than has already been spent. Fair is fair.

richfaa · 10-29-2010, 03:29 AM

There have been cases where a dealer has done that work and you might insist that you would prefer a dealer to do it. What I am saying is that the service center in Goshen is the best place to have that done.. If that is not a viable option then negotiate something that better serves your needs.

Desert RVer · 10-29-2010, 08:55 AM

Where did I say that the service center in Goshen isn't the best place to get the repairs made? Not denying that. The issue here is that the owner is having to go to an unusually high expense(travel costs, unpaid leave from work, etc) and inconvenience to have the repairs done at the factory. I still think that the owner can negotiate a better deal and still have it repaired in Goshen. Many manufacturer offers to pay for repairs are not taken advantage of because the travel costs to and from the dealer/manufacturer are more expensive/inconvenient than getting it done locally or fixing it yourslf. Much of the RV industry profits depends on that little bit of chicanery. Same way Rebates work. Many rebates are not claimed and the manufacturers know up front how many will not be claimed just as do the RV manufacturers know that many of the warranty repairs/expenses will be taken care of by the owner. Otherwise a price discount would be offered but then it is on 100% of the items. The manufactuer has admitted that they have built a defective unit and therefore it is their responsibility to fix the unit. Making the owner go through a significant expense/inconvenience to get it fixed isn't fair or equitable. This is seen far too often: The item is free, all one has to do is pay the shipping and handling cost. Quite often not a very good deal either. I too would much prefer to have repairs done at the manufacturing plant. But I'm not going to pull the RV 2,000 miles to do so. That option isn't appropriate or economical for us. The manufacturer needs to take responsibility to get the unit repaired properly at a location that minimizes the cost/inconvenience of the owner. There are many products I don't buy because there is no local warranty repair facility. Shipping the item to the manufacturer may cost more than what replacement unit or repair costs. When we buy an RV we expect repairs to be able to be made by the local dealer. If the manufacturer hasn't properly trained or equipped their dealers to make local repairs then I see no reason why the RV owner should then be held responsible for shipping expenses. The real issue here is what caused this problem to begin with. The manufacturer built a defective unit. The manufacturer needs to belly up to the bar and pay all expenses to correct it. Then maybe less of these defects might show up in the future as well. The RV owner should only have to buy the RV once however, I'm not sure the current RV industry can be profitable that way.

richfaa · 10-29-2010, 11:32 AM

I agree,, relay your concern to Keystone as you have here and see what happens. Can't hurt to ask...

Doug and Lorraine · 10-30-2010, 02:38 PM

We're still waiting to hear from Keystone. Today we went to pick up our Mountaineer from the dealer. When we got there, a different service manager told us there was no charge because they didn't do anything. We questioned what they did and he said "nothing". We took the trailer all the way to Pennsylvania to a dealer who sells Montanas like we were told by Keystone. We sent the dealer the pictures and video we took and they must've sent them to Keystone and based their decision on them. My hubby asked Keystone if they wanted him to send them when he first spoke to them. Didn't want them. It was a waste of fuel, mileage and time. We could've done everything with Keystone ourselves. There was no use for any professional opinions since none was asked or given. Is this crazy or are we? Hubby will call Keystone again on Monday to see what is going on. All seems odd to us.

timbuktu78 · 11-01-2010, 06:28 AM

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I too am having an issue with frame flexing. Just spoke with Robyne at Keystone...she said my dealer is equipped to handle the repair. So I called my dealer to confirm...still waiting to hear back. And btw, I live in Cali, but the dealer I take it to is in SLC, UT only bc every dealer around my local area (100 mi radius) are ill-equipped. And I mean that in knowledge, manners, just plain business skills. I have traveled all over the country with my 5er bc I PCS so often, and Blaine Jensen in SLC is by far the best dealer I have found. I am more than happy to take it 1,000 miles knowing I will be treated right (and it doesn't hurt my wife's family lives there so it makes it a nice vacation).

Doug and Lorraine · 11-01-2010, 01:05 PM

The dealer we took our 5ver to was the closest "Montana" dealer which happened to be in a different state. We were told to take it there because they are familiar with the product. The first thing the service writer said was they never saw anything like it. Well, we weren't real confident upon hearing that but said nothing. They never even stepped foot in the trailer or looked at anything. We were told they were going to open up the "nose" and take pics and see what kind of damage is there. NOTHING! Don't get me wrong, we are grateful it will be fixed but to Indiana? We thought a dealer could fix it. Still waiting for some communication so we can plan something.

Desert RVer · 11-09-2010, 03:16 AM

Any new update?

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