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Old 02-20-2007, 09:28 PM   #1
Dean A Van Peursem
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3400RL Water all over - Montana has a problem

It's 2:00AM and my wife wakes me saying she hears water running. Water all over the kitchen and into the dining room carpet. Shut outside water off immediately. Water on garage floor. Water gushing out the bottom of the insulation panels by the sewer pipe for the commode. Ran for at least 10 minutes after turning outside water off. Looks like either another loose pipe fitting or something has broken loose. What a mess!

Will wait until the morning to see if we can find the source or a trip to a dealer will be required. This is a re-run of water leaks after we had a similar occurrence the first week after delivery. Several loose pipe fittings behind the panel in the garage was the cause the first time. Montana has a real manufacturing quality problem at the factory and they need to get their act together. Why do we put up with this crap? This is nothing but totally disgusting and inexcuseable. I've about had my fill of this nonsense.
 
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Old 02-21-2007, 02:40 AM   #2
jrgwdenner
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Dean, I am sorry for all your problems. We had similar water connection problems when we first had our unit. Had to cut our Labor Day weekend trip short because we had a sudden burst of water all over the kitchen floor. The dealer found 56 loose connections. Someone didn't finish their job! Once fixed, we haven't had any more problems. We wish the same for you.
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Old 02-21-2007, 03:16 AM   #3
Ozz
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Dean, sorry for the trouble you are having, I know how upset you must be. It should be easily fixed once the part is located, but it should not have happened, now you have a mess to deal with, and much mental anguish.
Take care.
Ozz
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Old 02-21-2007, 03:49 AM   #4
Dee
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Dean,
Really sorry to hear of your problems, I hope yours do not include
the hyd hose problems that I seem to be having.
I have sent you a couple emails, and you have not responded, so not sure you are getting them?
Email me at your convience would you?
Thanks Dee
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Old 02-21-2007, 07:08 AM   #5
Dean A Van Peursem
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I have found the leak source. It was behind the convenience panel cover inside the garage. Panel is not all that easy to remove but fortunately had watched the dealer remove the panel when we had our first leaks. The second T in from the panel toward the center of the Rv was the culprit. The hose that goes toward the rear had poopped off the friction fitting. The screw type hose clamp apparently hadn't been tightened adequately. Put the hose back on tightened the clamp as much as I dared, turned water back on, WALA, no more leaks. With the hose diconnected had a 3/8" to 1/2" pipe dumping water all through the RV. Fortunately my wife heard it at 2:00 AM or it could have run all night. Fortunately it is warm and sunny here today in Apache Junction, AZ so things should dry out fairly rapidly.

I called Montana Service this morning and they were going to get the dealer in contact with me. That was 3 hours ago and still haven't heard back from anyone. All they really wanted to inform me about is they wouldn't pay for warrantly work on site. Not very helpful at all. Somehow they need to get the message about improving their manufacturing techniques and quality. I hope they are reading this.
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Old 02-21-2007, 08:03 AM   #6
Montana Sky
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Dean,
I can sure understand your frustration. It is good to know that you found the source and were able to get it fixed. I had a similar experience with the kitchen faucet in my stick home. Walked in the kitchen after being gone for a few hours and there was water all over the floor. The flexible pipe extension had broke allowing the cold water to flow freely. Two trips to Home Depot and 3 hours later, all was cleaned up and working again. It is my hope that the rest of your water connections have been properly secured during the build process.
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Old 02-21-2007, 10:23 AM   #7
richfaa
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Dean..what a mess.. That particular issue was discussed on this forum before we took delivery of our 3400 May of 06. One of the first things we did was to remove that big white partition (no fun) and clean up all the dangling wires and check all the hoses behing the docking station panel..several were loose.We hate to post negative things about our Montana's but we could sure use a little help from Montana.Rv traders in Mesa is a very large dealership and looks like they should be able to do any repairs necessary although it sounds like you already did the repair..All that water in the camper is going to cause damage down the road.. Take pictures, lots of pictures.
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Old 02-21-2007, 11:58 AM   #8
Illini Trekker
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Sorry to here about the water leak. I would still go to the dealer I have them look for other loose connection. Many of us here have gone over all or as many connections as we could and in my case they ALL needed tightened. You may want to use a regulator to help with other possible areas. But I feel and I'm sure you do to, the pipes are rated for much higher water pressure that they will ever see and should not leak!SeeYa
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Old 02-21-2007, 01:30 PM   #9
Cat320
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Dean..what a mess.. That particular issue was discussed on this forum before we took delivery of our 3400 May of 06. One of the first things we did was to remove that big white partition (no fun) and clean up all the dangling wires and check all the hoses behing the docking station panel..several were loose.We hate to post negative things about our Montana's but we could sure use a little help from Montana.Rv traders in Mesa is a very large dealership and looks like they should be able to do any repairs necessary although it sounds like you already did the repair..All that water in the camper is going to cause damage down the road.. Take pictures, lots of pictures.
Rich, do you remember how that partition came off? Sounds like something I (we) should check.
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Old 02-21-2007, 03:33 PM   #10
Dean A Van Peursem
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I called Montana service again to inform them that I had found and fixed the water leak. I also informed them that I had not been contacted by RV Traders in Mesa. Montana assured me they had called RV Traders immediately after my first contact this morning. Montana gave them my phone number and told them to contact me immediately. As of 8:10PM I still have not received a call from RV Traders. This is the second time RV Traders has failed to make a phone call to us. I have come to the conclusion that RV Traders in Mesa, AZ is not the kind of dealer, where I want to have the rest of my open warranty issues taken care of. I will go elsewhere.

Thanks to all the kind words from all of you regarding out recent episode. I will continue to check connections and have a Montana dealer go through all connections (under warranty) to verify correct tighness on all connections. I still must admit that I am astounded that Montana would allow water fittings to be done this poorly that has caused us two different sessions of water flooding the interior of the RV. As Richfaa correctly points out, there is probably damage that has occurred that is going to show up later. And probably out of the warranty period. I did get digital pictures of the broken pipe connection this time.

I'm a bit surprised that Montana hasn't made that a requirement for the next dealer visit. Something is amiss at Montana. I am now convinced they don't appreciate, desire or understand what good quality manufacturing techniques and processes are. The kind of problems we experiencing are so easily avoided by simple and proper procedures and meager employee training. These are simple concepts. I continue to be concerned about what I don't know or am unable to currently see. I didn't pay $500 for this RV. It costs more than many motor vehicles which are thoroughly documented with detailed operator, service and parts manuals and has 1/20th the moving parts of a motor vehicle and creates this continued kind of grief. Montana needs to recognize that they need to address the quality issues NOW or they will drive us away, permanently. Montana....,ARE YOU LISTENING?

I had to get that off my chest. I won't belabor it any more.......unless we have another major problem! :-)
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Old 02-21-2007, 03:45 PM   #11
richfaa
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CAt320..Removing that big white panel is not a fun thing..First most, if not everything needs to be removed from the compartment. There are a dozen or so screws that hold the panel to the rest of the Montana..now comes the fun part.Maneuvering the panel other from around the pipes etc. You may be able to pull it far out enough to get at the rear of the docking station but when you see what is going on back there you may want to tidy up a bit around the water pump and the other goodies back there.I cut the panel right where in takes that step down by the black tank dump valve..cut it right across even with the flooring..makes it easier to get the big white panel in and out.There is a fair chance you may have to get back in there again at a later date...
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Old 02-22-2007, 01:33 AM   #12
LonnieB
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I had the same problem with the same clamp, and posted my findings several months ago. I was lucky and found it before the hose popped off the fitting. The clamp was tight, but only a portion of it was on the hose, the rest of the misaligned clamp was on the plastic fitting.

It would be a very good idea to check the fittings on any newer unit.
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Old 02-22-2007, 01:41 AM   #13
jrgwdenner
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We had a similar leak but possibly not to the extent that Dean experienced and have not noticed any permanent damage at the time or up to this date. I hope it works out the same for them.
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Old 02-22-2007, 04:25 AM   #14
bsmeaton
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Dean,

I compiled a small list of things to be checked on our Montana based on input from the MOC, including the docking station. I sent the list to the Dealer a week before we took delivery and asked them to check and fix before we picked it up.

During the PDI, the Service Manager told me point blank he wasn't about to go through and check on the factory's work. He said just call me if something breaks. It went downhill from there, but he did fix anything that I spotted at the PDI.

I guess I don't necessarily disagree with the Dealers position. QA should start at the factory, not after it is already assembled and transported to the Dealer.
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Old 02-22-2007, 01:11 PM   #15
Cat320
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These manufacturers, dealers and service managers are not going to go live in the Montanas they build and sell...that's a big part of the problem.

As a young soldier in the Army, I was shown true quality control. My first assignment was with the 101st Airborne Division...we jumped out of airplanes for a living, great fun. Anyway, our parachutes were all hand packed by some highly qualified and highly trained riggers (these guys were too young to be 'old world craftsmen'). Each packed parachute had a tag with the identification of the rigger on it. As a form of quality control, every so often, a rigger had to pick one of the parachutes he packed (at random) and go jump it. He was the first to know if he had made a mistake in packing that parachute.
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Old 02-22-2007, 03:26 PM   #16
richfaa
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When a Journeyman Electronic Technician at Cleveland Air route Control center each of us was assigned a cross section of Electronic Equipment that we were responsible for .The failure rate of your assigned equipment was a large factor in your performance evaluation and your salary.You were held accountable for the performance of your systems. That was pretty good quality control...
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Old 02-22-2007, 03:51 PM   #17
exav8tr
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As a pilot, whenever I turned an aircraft in for a maintenance prob, guess who got to test fly it before putting it back on the line????? That's called faith!!!
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Old 02-23-2007, 01:28 PM   #18
Cat320
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quote:Originally posted by pparamore

As a pilot, whenever I turned an aircraft in for a maintenance prob, guess who got to test fly it before putting it back on the line????? That's called faith!!!
That's a weird system. That's what maint pilots are for!
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Old 02-24-2007, 01:35 AM   #19
cmp-shooter
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Can you point to where to look for these leaks...is it ONLY where the panels are for the water heater inside or what??
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Old 02-24-2007, 03:32 AM   #20
richfaa
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mpl897..You do not have the docking station on your 05 model.
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