Tow Vehicle - Montana Owners Club

Montana_3136 · 02-12-2005, 10:59 AM

My wife and I fell in love with the Montana 2955 and this will probably be our next rv. I am in the market for a new truck and I want to get a little input. I know I would like a short bed, crew cab truck.....I would like to get a little feed back on what you are all pulling your Montana's with so I won't be underpowered. Gas vs Diesel? Will I be ok with a short bed? We are not full timers, but we would like to take at least 1 big 1-2 month trip a year....canada, alaska etc. The rest of our trips would be within 500 miles of home. Any input would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Ed

Montana_2757 · 02-12-2005, 11:04 AM

Hi Ed - We have a 2955 and it is a 1999 and we love it. We full-timed in it for almost 2 yrs. We also have a short bed Dodge gas truck. My husband would have to give you more info on the truck, but it sure pulled our Montana good. I really don't care for diesel because of the noise and smell. I send more info when hubby gets home from ice fishing and I can ask him more about the truck.

Glenn and Lorraine · 02-12-2005, 12:17 PM

First of all Welcome to the MOC Ed.

As tou can see by my signature I have a 2955RL and I pull it with a Chevy 2500HD Duramax diesel. Altough it is an extened cab, and not the crew cab, it is a short bed and the Pullrite automatic sliding hitch makes a great overall package.

BUT,

Anyone of the BIG 3 (actually 4 if you seperate GMC and Chevy) trucks will do the job quite easily. I honestly don't feel one truck manufacturer is any better than another.

DarMar · 02-12-2005, 01:02 PM

Welcome Ed to the forum.

As you can see we pull our 2955 with a chevy/crew/duramax/allison/3/4 ton and it certainly does an excellent job. It is the best pulling truck we've had for sure!
Previously we did have a 6.0 litre gas/3/4 ton/supercab and it did the job as well but certainly the truck AND the driver had to work harder to get it done! The fuel economy of the 6.0 litre was very poor especially while pulling. The new duramax is quiet, starts very easy, and doesn't smell much at all. Good luck with your choice and enjoy the RIDE!!!

sreigle · 02-12-2005, 01:55 PM

We tow ours with a crew cab shortbed Ford 3/4 ton diesel. We also have towed it with a V10 Ford gasser with shortbed. You'll find 3/4 tons and 1 tons, lots of both in this forum. You'll also find lots of diesels and gas. I think the conventional wisdom is that any of the three major brands' diesels will do a good job. For gas, I'd recommend either the Ford V10, the Dodge V10, or the GM 8.1L V8. In the Dodge you'd have to find a used one since they do not currently offer the V10 in the trucks.

Shortbed is not a problem but I'd highly recommend a slider hitch, either manual or automatic. The automatic (pullrite superglide comes to mind) relieves you from having to think about crashing cab to trailer because it automatically slides as you turn. But it's rather pricey, something over 2 grand installed. For something less pricey, you can get a manual slider, which is what we have. I've towed with shortbeds since 1996 and have only needed the slider 4 times but when you need it you'll be glad you have it. The curved nose on the Montana gives you considerably sharper turns before needing the slider but there will come a time you'll need it for whatever reason.

About the only cab/bed I would NOT recommend is the standard cab shortbed. The wheelbase on those is pretty short and handling will suffer. With crewcab shortbed or even supercab shortbed you'll have plenty of wheelbase to make a good towing platform. Our previous two trucks were Ford F350's, one gas, one diesel, both supercab shortbeds and we were very pleased with their towing performance.

The above are just my opinions and observations. Please consider all posts and make your decision based on what you are comfortable with. As for which brand, I naturally prefer Fords since they have done a truly awesome job for us but others will tell you the same about their favorite brands. The new Fords have the highest ratings, bar none. Bottom line is all three (or four as Glenn mentioned) brands do a good job so I'd recommend you pick your truck based on the other things that are important to you, assuming you go with the big gas engine or the diesel.

Another question you didn't (yet) ask is single rear wheel vs dually. You'll find proponents of both in this forum. Ours is single rear wheel and we find no need to go with a dually. It is very stable in all conditions including high winds with passing semis. Others are more comfortable with the dually. In my opinion go with whichever best fits your needs, towing and not. This is our fourth FW, second Montana, and we've towed this one roughly 25k miles, maybe a little more by now. The Montana tows beautifully. It just kind of sits back there, following you, and there is no need for white knuckles.

Congratulations on your decision to buy a Montana. I think the 2955RL is an excellent choice. You'll find numerous MOC members with that model.

PackerFan · 02-12-2005, 02:16 PM

Hi Ed,
Welcome to the MOC also! We have a 2980RL and really love it. It is the same lenght as the one you are looking at. We pull it with a 1999 Dodge, 3/4 ton, with the Cummins Diesel. It is the best truck I have ever owned and does a great job pulling the trailer and anything else I put behind it or carry in the bed. I am sure you can get good replies from everyone on their trucks. It is all in how you set up the truck and use it. Be sure to get at least a 3/4 ton, towing package, heavy duty cooling system and the right gears for the area you will be traveling in the most. I have 4:10 gears in mine and it really gives it a lot more pulling power. Some say it sacrifices fuel mileage, but I get about 18-19 empty and about 12-14 when pulling the 5'er. Just go easy on the throttle and get to know your truck and it's sweet spot for running where it performs the best. Just do your research and get the right engine for what you need and don't under power it. A little extra motor may cost a little more but will last a lot longer too.

Hope this sheds a little more light on things for you. If you need more info feel free to drop me a line.

Scott

RVWheels · 02-12-2005, 06:12 PM

Packerfan,
The most recent edition of Trailer Life had a separate little booklet on Tow Vehicles. It stated what you have found out with your gearing. A 4:10 gearing gives more power and decreases the fuel mileage by very little. The consensus was that it was better to go with the lower gears for power...... since that is probably what you bought the truck for in the first place. Mileage is a minor trade off. Check out the article.... lots of good info in there.

RVWheels

richfaa · 02-12-2005, 10:40 PM

Gas Vs Diesel. I think you have to think about how you will be using it.Lots of miles, lots of pulling up steep grades..Diesel. If not Gas.Diesel is the BEST in the LONG run. Do not get a diesel just because everyone else is .or because it is "cool" to have one. Get the motor that will suit your needs. I have driven both..so to me it is a "why do I need it issue"

trukdoc · 02-13-2005, 03:01 AM

I have the 2005 Ford F250 Super Duty 6.0 Diesel with automatic and 3:73 gears pulling a 328RLS Mountaineer. Being a diesel mechanic I am prejudiced towards that type of engine. I did my homework and made the decision for the Ford. The new diesels are quiet and smooth. When at hiway speeds it is barely noticeable I get 20.2MPG hiway not pulling and 17MPG mixed driving and just over 12MPG pulling my RV at posted hiway speeds.
As far as gearing goes. Being a mechanic I have had all sorts of customers. Not to be nasty but my older clients swore by 4:10 gears. I believe the thinking on that choice of gears comes from a time when factory engines did not have nowhere near the horespower and ftlbs of torque of today.
Newer engines are soooo much stronger and have things added they did not have too many years ago, like engine/ trans coolers aftercoolers, in dash instrumentation, fuel rate computers ect ect.
A new Ford diesel truck with a 5 speed automatic with the tow mode and 3:73 gears can tow a heavy trailer to Alaska with no problems. A friend of mine just made the trip last Fall and boasted he stayed in the left lane on the long pulls passing most every RV out there. He reported that neither the transmission or engine temp guage ever moved very much. That is the testament that the engine was not under strain due to gearing. The point is with a modern truck you would have to pull a VERY heavy trailer to NEED 4;10 gears outside of that simply personal preferance.
As far as the big three goes it largely is a matter of choice. There are things better on one than the other, some hold resale better and on and on. Most importantly do a little research to find the truck that you will like and buy what you want.
Good luck.

padredw · 02-13-2005, 04:15 AM

I am not an expert at these matters at all, but I will simply add that I have basically the same combination as Glenn and DarMar above -- with one exception: I have the regular "long bed" Silverado (click link below to see photo). We had a Chev 3/4 gasoline before and liked it fine, but felt a bit of strain on mountain passes and with a strong headwind. The diesel/Allison has solved all that. We are comfortable on the Colorado mountain passes both going up and coming down.

As for the "long bed", we are not full-timers and live out in the country so we sometimes need a regular pickup. It also means that we do not need a special sliding hitch. We have the extended cab, not the crew cab. We are very pleased with this combination.

And, BTW, my Grandmother Williamson was born an Armstrong. My great grandfather was James Harvey Armstrong, born in Tennessee, moved to East Texas in 1853.

Charlie · 02-13-2005, 05:03 AM

trukdoc

What are your thoughts about the 7-10 minute idle cooldown period after heavy use that the Ford manual states? Do you see any turbo failures caused by this? What would be an ideal S/D temp on the turbo outlet? I use the turbo temp indicator on my gauges and it varies in time as to get down to what I consider a normal temp. I have a friend that drives a Duramax and he never cools down.

sreigle · 02-13-2005, 07:00 AM

Charlie, you addressed your question to trukdoc and with his background and knowledge I'd also like to see his reply. I guess I'll have to dig out my manual since I do not recall anything like that in the manual. Not to say it isn't there, I just don't recall it.

This is our second Ford 6.0 diesel. My EGT gauge (aftermarket) is on the pre-turbo side, with incoming exhaust. Temperatures on that side will be higher than on the outgoing side (so I understand) and also more volatile in temperature swing. At the recommendation of other folks I let it cool down to 400 degrees before shutoff and have never had a turbo problem. It gets down to 400 pretty quickly. When solo, by the time I get parked and look at the gauge it's at or below 400 and often well before then. When towing up a long grade and we pull into a rest area, by the time I pull into a parking spot and look at the gauge it might take another ten to twenty seconds to get down to 400, often less time.

We put 51k miles on the first diesel, including a lot of towing all over this country. And we've put 11k on this one, but only 1,250 miles of it towing since we're kinda waiting for warmer weather in the north before we resume traveling.

Hope this helps. I look forward to hearing from trukdoc and others on this issue. I would be surprised if the cool down differs significantly among any of the available diesels but that's just a guess.

Thanks for a great question. I'll follow this thread with interest. I can probably learn some things here.

I just noticed you have the 7.3 so maybe the procedure is different than for our 6.0. I'm not sure how your chip affects temperature and time to cool down.

trukdoc · 02-13-2005, 12:43 PM

Well Charlie I hope to answer a couple of your questions. The book says Idle cool down time. I have always used the practice of take off slow and easy for a couple of miles for warm up and the same for cool down. Beats just sitting in the driveway or parking lot. The harder you were pulling the more easy driving for cooldown. Absolutely never just shut off the engine with a hot turbo outside of engine trouble. It will put up with it for awhile but you will most definetly shorten it's life. When I was at the dealer getting my service done I seen a PSD getting a turbo and chatted with the service manager about it. He blames the cold rev up and hitting the road full throttle first thing in the morning. Not to take anything away from cooldown. I asked him what the cost of the turbo for the 6.0... about $1800.00 plus labor. OUCH. As for the Pyrometer readings I will keep my mouth shut till I have more info on the smaller diesels. I work on the larger Cat 3406 and 3408's 900 degrees about normal and up to about 1200 deg. little higher on hills.
Your buddy that never cools down I assure you will be paying for it!

Charlie · 02-13-2005, 02:06 PM

Trukdoc-
Thanks for the input, you reflected my thoughts about cool down exactly. If you can locate a number for cool down on the turbo outlet temp, I would appreciate it and Steve probably would like to see a number for the inlet. I have been told that 900 is the max with a load, that is what I have the alarm set for on my pyro.

Montana_1424 · 02-13-2005, 03:36 PM

I am not an expert on trucks, but I can give you my opinion. I have drivin the fords, and personally, I think they handle very lossely. I went the with Dodge for a few reasons, many diesel mechaninics have said to me the Cummins engine is the best out there, and from driving ghe ford everyday at work, and listining ti the Duramax at idle, the Cummins is the quietest. As far as smell, the new emmissions systems take that diesel smell out, they dont really smell any worse than a regular truck. I had the HEMI in my 3/4 ton last year, and as far as mileage goes, it is better with the diesel.
All in all, the big 3 make great trucks, some have better points than others, but as long as you stay with them, 3/4 ton or above, you should be fine. Mins is a short box, with a Reese manual slide hitch. Works out good for me, I hit my cab once, but that was my fault, other than that, I have had to use ut twice. The auto slide hitches are pretty pricey. As for dually's, save your money, they are nice, but not necessary.

Montana Sky · 02-13-2005, 03:39 PM

I run the Duramax and after pulling hard when we pull into a place to eat or do some shopping, I usually will let the truck idle while the better half goes and uses the restroom and washes up. I will then go once she is back, by the time we are done with this I feel the truck has cooled down enough to shut it off. If we are running empty then I usually just let it idle for a min or so in the rest area and then shut it down. This is my second Duramax and have not had any trouble with either one yet. I run with a good friend of mine who has the old 7.3L Powerstroke and he pretty much does the same thing as I.

ronstan · 02-14-2005, 06:47 AM

Go to the dieselman site Do a search on there. Somewhere it says what the cool down temp should be. It's either on there or on his yahoo group.

Montana_2304 · 02-14-2005, 08:09 AM

The previous owner of my Ford 7.3 told me to let the engine run til the pyrometer gauge read 300-325 degrees before shut down and the Banks tech not to run it over 1050 degrees but about 950 degrees is the hottest I have run it and that was on a long hard pull. Hopefully I'm doing the right thing.
Charlie

Montana_2825 · 02-14-2005, 11:59 AM

On a Ford 7.3 diesel, without having the temp gauges to measure exhaust temp, how do you determine what is "hard" pulling? And how do you determine when things are "cool enough" to shut off the engine? Is maintaining 2000 RPM for an hour or two on the Interstate considered "hard pulling"?

wingnut

Charlie · 02-14-2005, 01:10 PM

wingnut-
The 2000 RPMs depends on what you are doing, running into a head wind or pulling up hill in O/D will probably get up right up to the max, but there is no good way to tell with out the gauges. I had them installed in my '01 F-250 7.3L PSD right after I bought it. There was no tranny temp indicator in this model and I wanted to know my transmission temp. Here is a link and you can see what my gauges look like. Have been very pleased with the gauges.

http://www.dieselperformance.com/for...Gauges&tt=ford

The pyro is set up on the turbo exhaust and I have the alarm set for 900 degrees. Have only seen it there a couple of times. As far as the cool down (Charlie & Sue), I have never heard a good number for this, but I let it idle down to ~225 degrees, might be overkill, but I had rather err on the side of caution.

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