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Old 06-24-2005, 12:00 PM   #41
Montana_2785
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AS I've said before, I don't think I have a problem with the pinbox area welds. I don't see anything out-of-place inside when hitched up nor do I see anything amiss outside.

However, I recently installed a wireless remote control for the landing gear. The last time I hooked up, just as the trunk was starting to take the load, I went inside and sat on the bed while I retracted the landing gear.

The Monty creaks & groans a bit (which I expect). There has GOT to be some amount of flex with that much of a moment arm. What I didn't expect was near the end when I thought it was all done when there was a sharp jerk while the front end settled very suddenly for a short distance (1/8 or 1/4 inch???)

I've been considering dropping the bottom panel under the overhang to run some wires up to the pinbox area. If I do so, I would expect to be able to inspect the welds in question and be able to see if anything is starting to crack under load. What do you all think?

Eric
 
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Old 06-24-2005, 02:17 PM   #42
lightningjack11
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Eric,

I would like to see what is underneath also. I have at least 30000 on my 8 inch frame without problems. 4500 just this year.

Maybe I will eventually do it. I am very curious.
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Old 06-24-2005, 02:52 PM   #43
sreigle
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As for miles, ours has roughly 30k miles on it. The flexing in the overhang area began somewhere around 20k to 25k miles. This is in the overhang framing, not in the main frame under the lower part of the coach. No problem with that.

Our hitch is a standard Reese 15k Classic, 4-way pivot, with Kwik-Slide.
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Old 06-24-2005, 08:39 PM   #44
HamRad
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Well the dreaded main frame/overhang frame area developed THE separation. We probably have about 20 K miles on the rig. After Steve and Vicki started having trouble in that area with their rig (ours is identical) we really watched it carefully.

On our trip to Mt. Shasta we noticed it as we were hooking up to leave. Got in touch with our local dealer and arranged to get in for the fix. The rig is there now and we're waiting (not so patiently) for what they found and who is going to pay for it! We'll keep you posted on things. Wish us luck in dealing with this issue. I am NOT the best at dealing with this sort of thing. I want it fixed now and I want it fixed at a reasonable price. In this case Keystone, I think, should step up and cover the entire cost. But we'll see.......

HamRad
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Old 06-25-2005, 05:03 AM   #45
lightningjack11
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Not you too Hamrad. What a bummer. I do wish you good luck.

I am not good at dealing with these things either. Years ago I went balistic when I found out about Service Advisory 00-8 not being performed on my frame by my Montana dealer prior to buying it. It just slipped through the crack. So I had to deal with it after I bought it. I am not very good at this either. Now I don't even have a Montana dealer.

When I dropped in on Steve and Vicki in Independence Steve looked at mine. No tell tale signs yet but holding my breath. I have got a lot miles on mine.

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Old 06-25-2005, 05:41 AM   #46
mobilrvn
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We have a RBW hitch and have about 13K on the 5W. Guess the question of what kind of hitch relates to whether it is an "air-hitch" or some type which cushions the load vs. a standard 5W hitch. Would be interesting to know if anyone with a special hitch has this problem.

Thanks for the info on the factory stay, guess we'll be there for a while. Suncoast RV did the hitch pin retro fit and that didn't reslove the problem; sure it is broken some place else. Then there are about 30 items to repair, mostly because of the flexing, e.g. the one piece counter is cracked, a wall has pulled apart, another wall is warped, the ceiling is dropping, the wall has dropped down at least an inch on the right side, etc. Our major concern is what has really happened to the whole frame during this time. We see a lot of problems, but what worries us is what we can't see. Are welds or framing cracked internally. What happens in another 10K miles of towing? Will have a lot of questions for the techs when we get there. Would like to be able to have the whole thing x-rayed.
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Old 06-25-2005, 06:50 AM   #47
sreigle
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Another possible hitch question is 4-way pivot vs 2-way.

My experience with the service center is that if you are calm and patient with them they will treat you very well. They probably treat you well no matter what but they appreciate people treating them like the good people they are.

Remember this is not a problem with the main frame. It's with the overhang area only. At least on ours. The additional bracing they welded in makes me think we will not see a recurrence of this problem. It's stronger than original. From what I saw, if you make sure they're aware of what Suncoast already did, they'll go looking for the problem and will fix it.
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Old 06-25-2005, 07:53 AM   #48
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Old 06-25-2005, 08:51 AM   #49
Montana_4028
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Our 1st Big Sky, 2003 3295 completely fell apart! We are full-timers and had purchased the BS new. We took it up to No. Calif. and back to Salinas, CA. (our original starting point) and noticed the brakes were squeaking. Took it back to the dealer and they found that the brakes all had to be replaced after it had been driven less than 1500 miles. We also noticed, and told dealer, that the cabinet doors on the bedroom tv cabinet were off by about 1 1/2". We didn't realize at the time what this portended, but the dealer should have. They simply took the doors off and realigned them. A few months later, the carpeting in front of the fireplace caught up in the kitchen slide and we had to tear it out.

These models have a laundry chute at the top of the stairs to the bedroom that is held up by a 1/4" ridge and the hinge is held in place by only 5 small screws. In January of 2003, my husband fell through the chute when it collapsed as he was entering the bathroom. He twisted his knee resulting in a $10,000 surgery being necessary. We are still waiting for Keystone to settle with us on that.

The fireplace heater quit working and the water pump went out. In March of 04 the kitchen slide began leaking from underneath the floor and also the cabinets. Went to Holiday World in Houston, TX and they repaired above, but we had to foot the $552 bill and wait to get repaid from Keystone. It took over 6 months to get the money back.

By May of 04 the drawer credenza in the bedroom had begun dropping by 1 1/2" while hitched and we noticed that the cabinet doors were off again. We again contacted Keystone and they wanted us to bring it to Goshen, but couldn't get us in for 2 weeks. We told them we were in Ottumwa, Iowa and on our way back to CA and didn't want to wait two weeks and go clear out of our way. They said, alright, then take it to Pendleton, Oregon. We had a service manager check it in Lincoln, Nebr. and he said he "thought" it would make it to Pendleton, but to check for stress fractures each time we stopped.

By the time we got to Evanston, Wyo., the bedroom slide would no longer go in and out because the frame was so twisted. Before we left, my husband checked the tires, as is his usual habit, and found that the RF unit tire was cupping a bit. By the time we got to Ogden, Utah, the RF tire and a rear tire were practically down to the threads. At this point, we refused to drive it any further and called Keystone to come and pick it up. They sent someone from Blaine Jensen RV in Kaysville, Utah to get it.

The first thing Keystone had them do was take it to get it weighed, before we even had a chance to empty the tanks. They were, of course, trying to put the blame on us for overloading, but found instead that it was 400 pounds underweight. They found that our hitchpin was moving up and down about 3 inches and there were more than half a dozen breaks in the overhang frame. Keystone also wanted to know what we had hit. We had hit nothing! We were in Kaysville for 4 weeks while they tried to get parts in and fix it. Bo Parker, the service manager there, was great. Keystone had agreed to pay our expenses while we were stranded there and they did - - - we just got the check 1 week ago - a whole year later!

Finally, it was repaired except for the slideout which Blaine Jensen was not equipped to do. We traveled on to Pendleton, Oregon for that repair. Bob Payant, at Keystone in Pendleton, told us to have the rig in by 6:00 a.m. and he would have it out by 2:30 p.m.. His word was good as gold and they even repainted out entry steps!

By the time we got back to Salinas, the shower tub was leaking at the drain and my husband fixed that himself. We had doors that would stick throughout the unit and all the slides groaned badly when coming in and out. We again contacted Keystone and told them we were very unhappy and felt the unit was not safe and the frame was permanently bent and could not be repaired. After much haggling back and forth, they agreed to replace the unit. They replaced it with a new 2004, same model unit in October of 2004, and we're right back on the same track!

In November we took it to Sacramento, CA and found that we had no electricity whatsoever. Keystone told us to take it to Folsom Lake RV, and they found that the electrical transfer box had completely melted down. When it did, it damaged the TV, the microwave, the DVD and the fantastic fan, all of which had to be replaced.

In December we took it back to Alpine Recreation in Morgan Hill, CA, where we had gotten both units, because the brakes were squealing. Again, with less than 500 miles on the brakes this time, they had to all be replaced.

In January we were in Quartzsite, Arizona when we had a flat. We found that it was not a tire problem, but a defective rim. We had another flat at a Bonneville Flats rest area and found again that the problem was a defective rim. Also, we are now noticing that all the tires are wearing on the inside, indicative of an axle problem.
We've had this unit only 9 months! We took it back up to the Alpine Service Center and they feel that this is also a frame problem. We contacted Keystone and their first request, again, was to have Alpine weigh it.

After seeing all the similar complaints I can't figure out why Keystone is still putting out such inferior products! I don't want another one - I want my money back!! Two lemons in a row is just too much for me.
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Old 06-25-2005, 11:15 AM   #50
mobilrvn
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Ammyanne, you are making us very nervous. Your problems with rig # one sound very much like ours, but somewhat worse. Suncoast RV did a factory authorized repair with the factory supplying the parts and instructions. When the factory was told that the fix didn't work, they said it would be OK to drag it to the factory---we still have about a 1,000 miles to go, hope we make it!

We, too, have the laundry door chute problem. Hope your husband has recovered; we won't step on the door again until it is fixed. Our slides have started making more noise going in and out. The entry door keeps sticking more and more. We will even be more cautious in looking it over after every trip.

Just love how Keystone wants to make it the owners' fault when it is theirs. Strange how there seem to be more and more of the same complaint, although yours, Ammyanne, has mirrored our experience more closely. Thanks for the input. We are very concerned about what has happened else where in the 5W.
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Old 06-25-2005, 11:29 AM   #51
lightningjack11
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Wow! What a story.

I do hope your husband is ok now.

I checked by laundry door and sure enough only 5 screws. The door is only supported by two sides if the screws pull out. I will definately put another support bracket on mine to relieve pressure on the screws.

Thanks for posting, I would never have thought that was a problem. But now that I look at it closely I can see that an accident could easily occur. Especially us guys that are over 200.
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Old 06-25-2005, 01:50 PM   #52
richfaa
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Ye gods..After reading the above three post I don't know if I should even post this..We looked at a 06 3400Rl today at Town&Country Rv sales in Clyde , Ohio where we will be buying our Montana. Helen and I were armed to the teeth with all the defects we have read about on this forum. We yanked on all the cabinet doors and none of them fell off.We pulled at the carpeting, chairs , drawers, drapes, Checked out the shower doors for proper fit, open and closed them with vigor to see if they would jump off the tracks. twisted every pipe I could reach to see if I could twist it off.Helen walked around on the roof for 15 mins looking for Bubbles and defects, found none. Checked the slides for proper fit. We were looking for trouble and were very surprised to find none.Now we could not check everything but we did a pretty good job of poking around. We showed the sales manager the 7 page delivery inspection sheet and said no check will be signed till everything on this list is checked and Ok'ed. He said two things..1) no problem. 2) can I have a copy of the list (he could) The bad news is that is NOT the list we will be using.We will be using the 12 page list from this forum. We checked the unit from stem to stern, inside and out, there was NO salesman there to monitor us..we yanked and pulled everything,,On this 3400RL we were impressed and as some of you may know from some of my post..we do not impress easy.The above posts concern me ..however..I just got a recall on our brand new 42K+ Ford F350 SD that says, very politely, that the truck may at any time and without warning catch fire and blow up..so nothing is perfect..
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Old 06-25-2005, 07:06 PM   #53
Montana_2785
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It is very obvious that in the RV business "Buyer Beware".

Those of us who are mechanically minded, have done our homework and are willing to spend the time inspecting have the best chance of surviving (relatively) unscathed. However, there are SO MANY hidden things that can still bite us....

I'm very disapointed that when Keystone upgraded to 10" I-beam for the frame that they didn't also upgrade the overhang/pin box area....

I'm going to make it a point in the near future to drop the overhang cover and see what I can see. If I don't like it I may pro-actively have it upgraded on my nickel. I would very much rather not have to fix all the other things that a broken frame can do. With all the customizing we are doing we will have this rig for a very long time.

Eric
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Old 06-26-2005, 07:02 PM   #54
Montana_4028
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Mobilrvn we sure hope you make it! Be sure and watch the wear on your tires, that's the first sign that it's all about to fall apart.
On the laundry chute issue, when we got this 2nd unit my husband used two pieces of aluminum angle iron and bolted them to the frame underneath the chute door and used 5 heavy duty, long screws to attach the hinge to the floor. Would recommend this to anyone having that type of laundry chute. My husband is doing much better since the surgery, thank you all for your concern. Will let you know how we turn out with this second unit fight.
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Old 06-27-2005, 02:29 AM   #55
Montana_2785
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Ammyanne

[...]
On the laundry chute issue, when we got this 2nd unit my husband used two pieces of aluminum angle iron and bolted them to the frame underneath the chute door and used 5 heavy duty, long screws to attach the hinge to the floor. [...]
(Morbidly) interesting issue with the laundry door. I just put a reminder in my PDA to check that out this Friday while I'm getting ready for the 4th weekend.

Eric
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Old 06-27-2005, 02:15 PM   #56
frosty
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have had our rig (3295-2003) at the dealers for two weeks and the Keystone factory hasent sent the material to fix the 5th wheel, had the same problem with the welds breaking frosty
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Old 06-27-2005, 04:59 PM   #57
mobilrvn
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Hi Frosty, glad to see you on this topic. We were wondering how it was going. Sorry to hear that you are still waiting for parts. Thought we got the runaround, but you are setting a record. Are you in contact with anyone at the factory? If you haven't personally called, perhaps you should instead of going through your dealer. Please keep all of us updated on your progress or lack thereof.
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Old 06-28-2005, 02:17 PM   #58
frosty
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I m going to see the dealer tomorrow. If no progress will have to call Keystone, Hate to do that ,but they dont seem to care about it.. frosty
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Old 06-29-2005, 03:58 PM   #59
frosty
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said lumber and parts will be there tomorrow hope there right.
Will start to put together .Am waitting for call John
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Old 06-29-2005, 04:25 PM   #60
sreigle
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Frosty, awhile back one of our members had a dealer telling him Keystone was really slow shipping the parts to him. He eventually called the factory and found out the dealer had neglected to order the part. If you don't get satisfaction from your dealer you might think about calling Keystone. Good luck. Let us know.
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