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Old 01-11-2009, 08:01 AM   #1
MuddyPaws
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Electrical fire

I had our 2955 in front of the house from last weekends trip and was intending to put it back into storage yesterday. I was working on the tow vehicle and had unplugged it from shore power to use that cord for a soldering iron. When I was done I plugged it back into shore power and went in to make lunch.

Just as we're sitting down to lunch someone came running to our door saying that there's smoke coming out of our trailer. Sheer good luck that one of my neighbors noticed it!

I shut off the shore power and opened the bay door to switch off the batteries. The front compartment was on fire near the batteries but since I was off shore power I decided to put it out with water. Once the flames were (mostly) out I threw the switch to disconnect the batteries. I watched it for 4 hours and there was no more smoke.

The 12V wiring harness from the pinbox back is melted into slag. as are the battery cables. The hydraulic lines are melted. and I suspect the damage will go all the way to the converter, maybe further.

Today I put a meter on the 7 pin connector and every pin reads as a dead short to ground.

I've had little problems with other RV's, but NEVER anything of this magnitude.

I'm waiting for the experts to look at it and decide where the problem began but my #1 suspicion is that it began with the electric brakes. They failed the moment we drove it off the lot in 2005.

I keep an eye on the amperage they draw and it rarely goes over 7-8 amps, which is pretty normal for 2 axles. But it's possible that over time the brake circuit melted enough insulation to short out other circuits.

I'll be letting you know how good or bad Good Sam RV extended warranty insurance is. Reading the policy it seems that they exclude ALL electrical wiring.

I'm not worried yet, if it's not covered by Good Sam it's covered by AAA.

Edited 01/20/09

It fell off the tow truck because the driver missed one of the safty pins. Then he managed to drop it twice more trying to pick it up.

The frame is tweaked, the front sub-frame is very tweaked. one of the landing legs came up through the floor and destroyed most of the cabinets in the bedroom. The damage from the electrical fire has not been added up yet.

So far it looks like the charge wire from the converter to the batteries shorted to 'something'.

Todays Estimate : $15,000

Edited 02/21/2009

Aparently AAA does not cover electrical meltdowns unless there are actual FLAMES involved (we had plenty flames). Good Sam also excludes coverage for electrical wiring in their exended warranty coverage. My advice : take apart whetever you need to to make sure Keystone did not run your battery and/or charge wires between the frame & the floor or any other bad places. If you can seperate them from ALL other wiring.

We still do not have a difinative answer about where the short started.

Todays Estimate : $18,000

Edited 01/27/2008

Todays extimate remains at $18,000.

The 12v system was so badly charred that they can't even make a guess about where it started.

The estimate is expected to be complete in two weeks, but they HAVE started work.

Edited 02/02/2009:

AAA decided that it was a short somewhere in the wiring harness that started the fire. I have to pay for the electrical repairs out of pocket. This despite the experts assertion that there was no way they could pinpoint where it started. Has anybody been able to get any help from Montana in cases like this? I may be a heretic for saying this, but a $45,000 5'th wheel should not nuke itself after only 3 years and less than 7,000 road miles.

Edited 02/07/2009:

Our repairs are almost done and we should be able to bring our Monty home next week. The general slowdown in the RV market and the season meant that they could put the whole shop on it, and the parts came quickly.

Edited 02/10/2009:
Picked out Monty up today. The final tally, just a bit over $20,000.

So far I've noticed that the front end no longer creaks & shifts when the weight transfers from the landing legs to the hitch like it used to. Almaden RV told me they saw some evidance that there was excessive flexing in this area and added a bunch of gusseting to stiffen it up. The also added breakers at both ends of the 12v system so that if there is another short we won't catch fire again. All the 12v wiring from the converter all the way forward to the 7 pin connector was totally replaced.

Perhaps we should have taken it to them when it was new?
 
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Old 01-11-2009, 08:05 AM   #2
NCFischers
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Sorry to hear about the fire. Please keep us posted if you find out anything.
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Old 01-11-2009, 08:13 AM   #3
bsmeaton
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Thank goodness you weren't sleeping in it! Really sorry to hear about the mess it probaby left. Sounds like a near complete rewire.
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Old 01-11-2009, 09:40 AM   #4
nailbender
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You were lucky your neighbor happened to see the smoke. You should not have any problems with your AAA insurance. We have AAA and last year when our 3075 was destroyed, we received outstanding service. Hopefully you have a good Montana dealer to do the repairs.
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Old 01-11-2009, 10:41 AM   #5
MuddyPaws
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Our Montana dealer is one of the worst. They sent us on our way with brakes that failed 80% of the time. After 3 months they still hadn't fixed the problem. I finally gave up on them & fixed it myself.

Alpine RV in Morgan Hill, CA. I avoid them at all costs.
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Old 01-11-2009, 11:09 AM   #6
richfaa
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Had very much the same "meltdown" in December of 06 in our 7 month old 3400 Montana. Cause was traced to the charge wire fom the 7 way plug that melted everything you mention. The convertor was also melted. We managed to cut the power and get the fire out before it burned down the camper.(we were in Quartzsite at the time) We acted on instinct in saving the camper mainly because Helen was still in it. On reflection We should have got her out and let it burn down.
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Old 01-11-2009, 12:51 PM   #7
bsmeaton
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Wonder if it might be worth taking it up to the factory in Oregon? If they still have a factory there.
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Old 01-11-2009, 01:10 PM   #8
stiles watson
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We came so close to having something similar. You have our empathy and understanding. Ours was covered by warranty, but it is still scary and shocks ones confidence. Your casualty insurance should cover it.
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:51 AM   #9
richfaa
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We called Team Montana from the middle of nowhere(Quartzsite, Az While the camper was still smoking and within 1/2 hour they had made all the arrangements to correct the problem. RV Lifestyles in Quartzsite a Keystone dealer but not a Montana dealer had us back on the road within 24 hours and had 3 tech's working on the camper. I would call your insurance company ASAP as this will be a expensive repair. The truck was off the camper and pulled away so the truck was not damaged. Everything from the 7 way plug back was melted.It was actually the hydrauic fluid that caught fire,as it has a very low flash point, the cheaper the lower. Make sure you drop the underbelly and check for melted wires under there. Check for hydraulic leaks as our lines were burnt through in the undebelly. A string of IMO related 12V problems followed us all winter. ckt boards, fridge, furnace, hot water tank.We lived in constant fear that the thing would burst into flame at any time. In April of 07 we spent 4 days at the service center where they went over the entire camper again. We give high marks to all in the Keystone system who came to our aid.
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Old 01-12-2009, 09:30 AM   #10
MuddyPaws
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Now it's a real mess. It fell off the tow truck!

He had the pin up about 7 or 8 feet off the ground. The landing grar is gone, black tank ruptured, and we're betting the frame is broken. Mrs. Muddypaws is afraid to go inside to see the interior damage.

Anybody have experience with one of these hitting the ground at 30-40MPH?

I hope it's totaled, 'cause it'll never be the same again.
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Old 01-12-2009, 09:36 AM   #11
Mrs. CountryGuy
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There are no words good enough right now, the best I can do is

I am sooooooo sorry to hear this. What a nightmare. I know I would be in a fetal position crying my eyes out.

We wish you the best on the outcome of this.
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Old 01-12-2009, 09:47 AM   #12
bsmeaton
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Oh my gosh - It has to be totalled!
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Old 01-12-2009, 10:25 AM   #13
richfaa
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Holy Moley....What a mess..and how are the insurance companes going to sort that out. Tell you what tho.. Based on our experience with our melt down.If it winds up totaled that may not be a bad thing.
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Old 01-13-2009, 03:01 PM   #14
Okie Guy
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Good greif. I thought I was the only person with that kind of luck. I hope for your sake they total it out.
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Old 01-14-2009, 04:15 AM   #15
Dennis Korchak
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I had the same problem, melted all the wire bundle from the 7 way plug back to the batteries and melted the hydraulic slide line. What a mess. The cause was a shorted charge line which melted the wire bundle. We ran all new wires, ran separate charge line (not bundled with the rest of the wires) and installed a separate 20amp fuse where the charge line connects to the 50amp auto relay. If it shorts out again the fuse will break the supply source. We also rerouted the wires so that they are not in contact with the Hydraulic lines. This just happened Dec 11 when we were just about to head south. Montana has a very poor wiring design/layout. Your charge line if shorted has the potential of putting 50amps to ground before the 50amp auto reset breaker works. Also if you are hooked up to AC, your converter also adds another 55 amps to the equation. So that equals to about 100amps available to a short to ground. That is why I put a 20amp fuse in on the charge line to eliminate that problem.
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Old 01-14-2009, 05:14 AM   #16
richfaa
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Well, well.. that is three of us on the same forum that had exactly the same problem with exactly the same results. Wonder how many others have had the same issue but have not reported it??? Dennis we had other 12V problems after that happened. Keep a eye out.
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Old 01-14-2009, 03:09 PM   #17
MuddyPaws
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Dennis! Thank you for the detailed description. I do believe that's exactly what happened to us but the guys at the repair yard are thinking my truck was wired improperly. Not possible!

1. It wasn't plugged into the truck, it was on AC.
2. I've towed at least 3 other trailer & fivers with this truck without a single problem.
3. We've got over 30 trips on our Montana. If the truck was wired backwards it would have nuked the first time it was plugged in.
4. I checked both 7 way connectors on the truck with a tester made just for that. Both checked out 100% good.

The initial estimate is at $10,000, and we've been warned to expect more as they get deeper into it.
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Old 01-15-2009, 01:35 AM   #18
richfaa
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Note..My truck was also not connected to the camper.My problem was due to improperly run wires in the underbelly. The charge line wore against the frame while in transit, ignited the hydraulic line and burned and or fried everything in that bundle. It was under the service bay in the 3400. The camper was 7 months old and by that time had traveled @ 5K miles.
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Old 01-15-2009, 07:29 AM   #19
Ozz
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Knowing the way things are assembled now-days, when we bought our Monte, I worked on it for 2 month's before we took it out. I pulled the bottom cover off, isolated and tied up all wires, hydraulic lines, pulled the 12 volt panel,& line voltage breaker panel, tightened wires, secured wires and made my modifications. Some of the line voltage wires were just 'finger tight' at the breakers. I pulled out 3 neutral wires with needle-nose pliers with no effort. Pretty sad.
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Old 01-15-2009, 08:24 AM   #20
MuddyPaws
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Mrs. Muddypaws took our tow vehicle to them this morning, at their insistance. Naturally they found nothing wrong.

If I were a betting man my money would be on the charge wire from the converter being abraded by the frame, just as Richfaa described above.

They tell me that we'll be monty-less for over a month because it's difficult to get parts out of Keystone. And Keystone is closed because of the cold.

Maybe we should have kept the Arctic Fox. Nothing ever broke on that one.......
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