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Old 10-18-2007, 07:09 AM   #1
ols1932
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Diesel vs. Gasoline

I decided to start another thread concerning the fuel prices because I think we're missing something when we just talk about out of pocket expense, so I did some calculating.

Fuel Prices—Diesel vs. Gas

It seems that we all get alarmed when diesel prices go up and stay up so much higher than gasoline. But my research reflects that if we have to worry about prices then we might as well sell the rig and buy a stick house to live in—with no travel.

In following the inputs of various RVers, I’ve found that the diesel owners get on average 9 to 11 mpg whereas gas engine owners get on average 7 to 9 mpg. I don’t think anyone has taken the time to determine who is getting the best of it. Let me shed some light on it.

Using a figure of $2.50 per gallon for gasoline and $3.00 per gallon for diesel, I think you will be surprised. I took the middle figure of 8 mpg for gas engines and 10 mpg for diesel engines in my calculations.

Over a 100 mile trip, the gasoline engine will take 12.5 gallons, costing $31.25, Over the same 100 miles, the diesel engine will take 10 gallons, costing $30.00. So you can see that the diesel engine runs cheaper and on top of that you have the engine longevity of the diesel engine.

The break even point between diesel engine fuel usage and gasoline engine usage is when there is a $.60 per gallon difference.

Based on this, even though we don’t like the cost of diesel fuel, we are still making out better than the big V-10 engines.

Orv
 
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Old 10-18-2007, 07:30 AM   #2
richfaa
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I do not understand why we continue to compare gas and diesel motors execpt for maybe just something to talk about. Tbey two completly different motors. Hardly anything is the same. The diesels we drive are turbo charged.. The gas motors are not.,. Without the turbo the diesel is just another motor. I would guess that few here have ever driven a non turbo disesl.. I have and do ..they are pretty much dogs.. Any school bus drivers out there...They are non turbo charged...how do they run????? I drove a V-10 gas for three years...It did exactly what the V-10 gas was designed to do and did it well... I now have a Diesel.. I expect that it will do exactly what it was designed to do and do it well.
I will not keep the diesel 10 or 15 years few do..I will not put 200 or 300K miles on it..few do.. and yes I will get more when I trade it in..I PAID MORE FOR IT. We will get more for our Honda Accord than for our Honda Civic. I will get more for my dually than for a SWD, I will get more for the CC than the Super cab..I will get more for the LB than the Short bed, I will get more for the 4X4 than the 2X4.. I can't stand it when folks compare two completely different things...
Now I have got to go take a nap..
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Old 10-18-2007, 07:47 AM   #3
ols1932
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Rich,
It's the difference in cost of fuel that everyone keeps harping about and there really is no reason to.

Orv
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Old 10-18-2007, 08:39 AM   #4
Glenn and Lorraine
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Rich, we all realize the differences in the cost factors that you mention above but I don't think that is what Orv is trying to get at. What you paid when you buy a new vehicle and what you get when you trade it or sell it has no bearing on the fuel consumption.
But, the more options you add to that new vehicle could very well have a bearing on MPG. The more options such as DRW vs SRW, 4X4 vs 2X4, Crew vs Ext cab, Long Bed vs Short Bed, etc can and will make a difference. All the options added to a vehicle add weight and added weight lessens fuel mileage.

But while we own and operate a vehicle is what I think Orv is refering to. A savings on fuel is a savings no matter how you cut it. Having 50,000 miles on my TV and using Orv's formula of only 10MPG (I get closer to 12 on average) and $3.00PG it cost me $15000.00. If it was a gasser it would have been $15625.00. Now I consider $625 quite a savings. Add that to the 10,000 mile service intervals all of a sudden owning a diesel makes a whole lot of sense.

ORV, I couldn't agree more with...
Quote:
quote:if we have to worry about prices then we might as well sell the rig and buy a stick house to live in—with no travel.

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Old 10-18-2007, 11:50 AM   #5
richfaa
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The gas Vs diesel is just one of my "things" Of course a diesel is less expensive to run..over the long run.. It is designed to be less expensive to operate.It is designed to be better than a gas motor..in the long run.. It is a completely different design than a gas motor and designed to do different things..That is why it is..IMO...meaningless to compare them.We do not have to compare it is a given that over the long run the diesel will serve you better.Of course the diesel gives better MPG...it is designed to do that just as my Honda Civic gives better MPG than Helen's Honda Accord.

(this is not a serious discussion on my part) I really do not care.. The gas motor did the job..the diesel will do the job and I am NOT crunching any numbers...Now I have to take another nap..
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Old 10-18-2007, 12:50 PM   #6
ols1932
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Rich,
Please don't get upset with me. I merely posted this to provide information for those diesel owners who get all caught up in the price of diesel fuel and they keep remarking about how cheap gas is. I just wanted them to see that just the operating cost of diesel fuel in their vehicles is cheaper than running a comparable gasoline engine. It was not meant to stir up emotions or pit diesels against gassers, or SRW vs. DRW, or 2X4 vs. 4X4, or any such thing. Just for your information, I also drove diesel school buses and that's when I determined that I would have a diesel pickup. Please accept my apologies if I've in some way irritated you with this post. But I do know there are others who do appreciate it.

Orv
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Old 10-18-2007, 01:24 PM   #7
Ozzie
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It helped me a bit Orv...I'm on my first diesel and diesel is 3.15+ here while gas is 2.70. It has me a bit worried if I made the right choice, but deep down I really do see the difference.
My gasser got 200 miles per tank and the diesel empty gets close to 390 (both vehicles loaded the same - topper and tools, etc.).
That is everyday driving (90% of my use).
Towing I get 180 vs 300...so it still shines...power and peace of mind not withstanding.
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Old 10-18-2007, 01:26 PM   #8
richfaa
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Oh Orv 1932 Ole Rich 1936 would never get upset with you,we have both been around long enough not to get upset about little things. I was just having a little fun with one of my favorite pet peeves and I did not mean it to be at your expense. You are of course correct in your evaluation of gas/diesel expenses...Note that I just purchased a shinny new Diesel pick- um-up truck so I would say that proves your point. I do however have a weird sense of humor????
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Old 10-18-2007, 02:03 PM   #9
noneck
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Orv...for what its worth...I am sleeping better at night because of your clarification in a dollars and cents perspective. Had the feeling but never actually did that exercise. Thanks,
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Old 10-18-2007, 02:31 PM   #10
Charlie
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The cost to refine crude into diesel is not any different than that of gasoline. What makes the difference is the treatment to remove the sulphur and that makes the diesel more expensive. For those that have not noticed, crude oil futures almost hit $90/bbl today.....$89.47, look for $100/bbl by spring.
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Old 10-18-2007, 03:06 PM   #11
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Gas mileage is one thing, cost per mile is another thing. Throw in the 10 to 12 quarts of oil and the added cost of fuel, oil and air filters and with diesel at its present cost that gasser is cheaper per mile to drive.
That being said I still love the way the deisel pulls my Monty. If I weren't pulling it I would be driving a gasser, with a small V-8.
Mark
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Old 10-18-2007, 03:35 PM   #12
boylanag
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We bought our gasser before we got our first Monty. When we upgraded to a newer Monty and retired at the same time, the idea of getting a diesel took a "poof pill." I would love the torque and power of a diesel but the cost is now beyond us now so we will just continue enjoying our Monty and let you beat us to the next destination.
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Old 10-18-2007, 03:47 PM   #13
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Well I have a diesel and no one will ever convince me not to have one. I love the way it sounds and the way it pulls the Monty effortlessly. Just do a straw pole of the guys who had a diesel to pull with and decided to gas compared to those who had a gas motor and went to a diesel.
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Old 10-18-2007, 11:58 PM   #14
Glenn and Lorraine
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by mtheo

Gas mileage is one thing, cost per mile is another thing. Throw in the 10 to 12 quarts of oil and the added cost of fuel, oil and air filters and with diesel at its present cost that gasser is cheaper per mile to drive.
That being said I still love the way the deisel pulls my Monty. If I weren't pulling it I would be driving a gasser, with a small V-8.
Mark
I'm not familiar with the frequency of an oil change on the gassers anymore but I figure a 10,000 mile, 10 quart oil change, AS RECOMMENDED BY GM, for my Duramax isn't all that bad. If memory serves me they change that 5 quart gasser more often than 10,000 miles. As far as the filters, that's pretty much a wash.
Now if I weren't pulling I would have a GM Savana 2500 Conversion Van with the Vortec 6.0 V8
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Old 10-19-2007, 12:21 AM   #15
richfaa
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Few folks that tow follow the manufacturers recommended maint schedule. I change oil and filters every 5K miles, same as we did in all of our tow vehicles. If you follow the SAME maint schedule at the same intervals the diesel will cost more. That 5K maint schedule is also followed by our diesel guys for our school busses which fall under the "heavy use" category. It all comes down to what best serves your needs at the time.. Needs change as ours did hence the switch from gas to Diesel, 4X2 to 4X4..and so it goes.As far as the cost involved..you buy the motor ..you accept the cost of operating it..Big block gas or Diesel.
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Old 10-19-2007, 02:11 AM   #16
Glenn and Lorraine
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Well twice I had my oil analized after 10,000 miles and twice it still had plenty of life to it. I do understand some folks belief in changing more often when towing but I believe having the used oil analized occasionally is a much better belief. At least it works for me.
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Old 10-19-2007, 02:39 AM   #17
ols1932
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Let's not get into a discussion away from the original posting of cost of diesel fuel vs. gasoline.

Orv
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Old 10-19-2007, 03:14 AM   #18
richfaa
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Diesel fuel remains at 3.099 to 3.149 around here but gas has gone up to 2.899 to 2.999 over the last couple of days. For a long time diesel was .60 to .70 cents more than gas..sure does not make much sense.
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Old 10-19-2007, 03:49 AM   #19
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OK here I go with my rant. I agree with Orv that a diesel will get better gas mileage than a gas motor. I also agree with Rich because he is looking at the bigger picture. On a diesel you have a much larger investment like the initial 4000-6000 bucks it will cost to by one, then add in the extra cost on maintenance and fuel cost and you will find that the diesel is more costly to operate. The break even point is years down the road for a diesel compared to gas.
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Old 10-19-2007, 05:39 AM   #20
Glenn and Lorraine
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OK Orv, I'm backing away from this thread because there are some you will never convince that diesel MPG vs gas MPG vs total driving picture equates to diesel fuel over the long run is cheaper than gasoline. That plus some apparently didn't read the whole thread thoroughly.

OK Now like Rich I also need a nap and after the nap, a new thread cause I won't be back to this one.
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