Why doesn't Keystone like fulltimers? - Montana Owners Club

mobilrvn · 09-14-2007, 03:34 PM

Went to our first RV show since we've decided to dump the Montana. Keystone and several other mfgrs. aren't being considered by us since they have language in their warranties voiding them if the RV is used for fulltiming.

We would like to know what the legal definition of a fulltimer is. Is it 365 days, 181 days, 60 days, or some other time period a year? Does it mean owning an RV and not a house, too? What if a person is fulltiming for six months, has no house, but intends to buy one? If I take an RV on a three month trip to Alaska, Baja. FL, ME, and but 50,000 hard miles on it, it is covered. But if I take it to FL for six months and NY for six month, then it isn't covered!

Something for you to think about when considering a new rig. I did ask a mfgrs. rep at the show and the best he could come up with is the use the extra water heater would get. Told him that it would be covered by the warranty on the water heater and he had no come back.

I questioned on

adelmoll · 09-14-2007, 04:01 PM

Why would anyone have to know that you are fulltiming?

Longwell · 09-14-2007, 04:39 PM

We would like to know what the legal definition of a fulltimer is. Is it 365 days, 181 days, 60 days, or some other time period a year? Does it mean owning an RV and not a house, too? What if a person is fulltiming for six months, has no house, but intends to buy one? If I take an RV on a three month trip to Alaska, Baja. FL, ME, and but 50,000 hard miles on it, it is covered. But if I take it to FL for six months and NY for six month, then it isn't covered!

Darn good question there. I can't wait to hear all the answers.

Something for you to think about when considering a new rig. I did ask a mfgrs. rep at the show and the best he could come up with is the use the extra water heater would get. Told him that it would be covered by the warranty on the water heater and he had no come back.

The - lol - water heater - LOL - usage - ROTF. Best answer I ever heard.

I was laughing so hard I almost had my pipe fall from my mouth! What a comeback.

Larry

Glenn and Lorraine · 09-15-2007, 12:15 AM

In all the years of full timing Keystone nor Montana has uttered a single negative word about full timing in our Monty. Just this week we took our 8 month old Monty to the service center for some WARRANTY work. Every repair was made to our complete satisfaction and every repair was made at absolutely NO COST to me. Everything was fully covered under warranty.

Darrel in the service department is fully aware that we are full timers, 365 days a year full timers. This Monty is truly our home as we own no other real estate anywhere. We are full timers in every sense of the term.

We also have any number of full time MOCers and they all will tell you the same thing.

Don't let the other manufacturers sales hype sway you from a Montana.

As far as definition of a full timer...
"IN MY OPINION" a true FULL TIMER is just that. They live in their RV FULL TIME or 365 days a year and 366 for leap year. Whether or not you still own a stick house has no bearing so long as you don't live in it.
"IN MY OPINION" anything less than a FULL 365 days a year is considered a LONG TIMER. The term "LONG TIMER" was coined right here on the MOC, and in general meant those on the road less than 365 days but more than 6 months and not necessarily continuous.

sreigle · 09-15-2007, 03:14 AM

There is no language in the warranty voiding the warranty if fulltiming. There is language in the manual similar to what 90% of manufacturers put in their manuals and that is that the unit is not intended for four season living. That's just legalese limiting liability if someone camps in subzero weather and freezes up or goes to Death Valley at 114 degrees and the single AC doesn't keep up.

We are fulltimers and Keystone knows that very well, from our dealer to the Keystone service people to the VP. We have never had a warranty issue related to our fulltiming and it has never even been mentioned.

exav8tr · 09-15-2007, 04:45 AM

I have had several warranty items repaired "on the road". I don't particulary avoid the use of the term "fulltimer", I just tell the service people that I travel constantly and have no home base. I have not had a problem with any service (other than shoddy work, on ocassion). In fact, when they know I am travelling, they seem to get me in quicker, maybe that's just the dealerships I have been to.....

SlickWillie · 09-15-2007, 05:09 AM

Warranty Exclusions

. Trailers used for business, rental, commercial, residential, or disaster relief purposes, or any purpose other than recreational travel and family camping.

That's from the Keystone manual. Do they enforce it? I don't mean this as an "opinion" as to whether they will deny coverage or not. I was looking at the section on disinfecting the fresh water tank, and took a look at the warranty section.

Glenn and Lorraine · 09-15-2007, 07:04 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by SlickWillie

Warranty Exclusions

. Trailers used for business, rental, commercial, residential, or disaster relief purposes, or any purpose other than recreational travel and family camping.

That's from the Keystone manual. Do they enforce it? I don't mean this as an "opinion" as to whether they will deny coverage or not. I was looking at the section on disinfecting the fresh water tank, and took a look at the warranty section.

NO!!!

richfaa · 09-15-2007, 08:39 AM

If they look at things on a case by case basis that language is a "way out" Do they enforce it..not to anybody's knowledge..can they enforce it....you bet....

SlickWillie · 09-15-2007, 08:53 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

If they look at things on a case by case basis that language is a "way out" Do they enforce it..not to anybody's knowledge..can they enforce it....you bet....

Exactly!

mobilrvn · 09-15-2007, 10:44 AM

Bullseye, Rich! It is having the possibility of a legal battle hanging over your head which is disconcerting. Why should I have to be evasive about my lifestyle when getting the rig repaired? If it is not going to be enforce, then it should be eliminated.

exav8tr · 09-15-2007, 03:39 PM

If I could step in without getting dinged by everyone. I could argue the case that a fulltime RV'er is recreating. It would seem that a residential trailer is the same as a mobile home. One that is permanently mounted in a park. As a fulltimer, I am still recreating and I would challenge anyone to prove otherwise. mobilrvn, you don't have to be evasive, just tell the truth, you are travelling in your Rv and sometimes stay longer at one place than another. If you are concerned about the legality, save receipts from attractions, movies, parks and other things you pay for on the road.

Let's not start another "URBAN LEGEND" thing like the responses to the weight situation.

This is, of course, my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions.......

Phil

dsprik · 09-15-2007, 05:41 PM

FTers for over a year. Warranty work done at two different dealerships. Thousands of $$ paid for without question. Both dealerships are fully aware of our status.

My opinion??? That language is there to thwart any possible impending and/or threatened lawsuit - period! All other situations and claims are a non-issue to Keystone. They are NOT trying to find ways to shaft their FT customers...

Just curious... are there any FTers out there that have been turned away on warranty work "because you are a FTer"?

Did I mention that this was just my opinion???

Delaine and Lindy · 09-16-2007, 07:22 AM

We have been to Camp Keystone service center twice. On both occasions we were treated great the repairs that were done was done very professionally. At the time were were full timing and they were told and their answer was so what. Keystone is just protecting themselves. They aren't going to leave themselves open for law suits. And if you think they don't know what your doing, well here's your sign. And the year warranty will be over before you know it. When you get into RVing you will just have to learn to repair some problems yourself. If you ask, someone will be able to help. I personally believe no RV of any brand on the road today that want have problems. And the problems we see a lot of them are the fault of you and I, because we except it, and just keep on excepting it. The industry as a whole is just not as good as it should be. I do believe in the near future that will change, but it will take some time. When we stop excepting poor design and poor workmanship you will see a change. Life is good.... GBY....

sreigle · 09-16-2007, 07:28 AM

We're not a bit evasive about our lifestyle with Keystone, dealers, or anyone else. And we have never had the issue raised as to whether something would or would not be covered by warranty because we use our Montana fulltime. Never.

I still think "residential" use means it stays put in one place with no intent of doing any recreating. We, on the other hand, are on a multiple year trip to see the beauty and history of this great country. And that, my friends, is recreation. It is not using it as a substitute for a stick home and living as we would in a stick home.

exav8tr · 09-16-2007, 03:17 PM

AMEN!!!!!!! Steve

FulltimeFollies · 09-17-2007, 04:37 AM

I do not know of the legal term, but for insurance wise, 5 months and longer is considered fulltime by most insurance companies. We have fulltimed in our for a year and a half, had work done by our dealer, had parts sent to several different parts of the country, and everyone including their dogs, know we fulltime in ours. Never a word or any remark , other than "good for you guys" have we ever heard from anyone with Keystone.
Can Montana decline to cover us if they so desired? Sure. But we knew that going in and what I saved and what I got for the difference in money from the "covered fulltimer use" fivers, can and does buy us a lot of food and self satisfication.
In truth, them Tetons have nothing on us, except they have a bigger hole in their money bag.
I will take my Monty any day over any of them and praise Keystone along the way.

dsprik · 09-17-2007, 05:13 AM

FulltimeFollies, you took the words right out of my mouth! Which the wife claims is good...

Bob & Lee · 09-17-2007, 07:09 AM

I have been in a montana this being our second and never had a problem they always ask first DID YOU BUY IT FROM US.. NO well ok I need to see your purchase agreement to see if it is still on warranty..then what is your current address they put it on the work order. I give them the street address of where we are parked at the time.

Bob

genecurp · 10-03-2007, 05:17 AM

One point we have discussed is that Montana does not use the warrenty exclusion to cheat customers.

We may have missed a second point. Federal regulation covers what construction "codes" or standards can be used in a recreation vehicle, and what higher standards must be met for "mobile homes" that are intended for full time residential use. Keystone is just making sure they are not representing their product as meeting those higher standards. It is a notice to the consumer to protect us from being mislead.

Gene

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