Frozen black & grey - Montana Owners Club

JandC · 12-08-2013, 06:32 AM

Have been leaving bathroom grey open recently, black closed and galley grey closed. It was time this morning to dump with black almost full. Both the black and grey pull handles are frozen in place. Tired heat gun on black but that didn't seem to help. It got down to 8 above last night and is now up to 23. I have furnace turned up to 73 with fireplace off and thought I would run it this way for an hour or so to put additional heat down below before I try to dump tanks again. Also considered running hot down bedroom drain thinking it might heat up all the drain pipes underneath and help. Any suggestions?

**DQDick** · 12-08-2013, 06:36 AM

Dump some hot water down the toilet as well. Not only will you get more heat in what's down there helping the flow it may also work on the valve.

TLightning · 12-08-2013, 07:04 AM

When it is that cold, I put a couple of trouble lights in the water compartment with 60w bulbs...use the old style, not the new ones...you need the heat.

JandC · 12-08-2013, 08:29 AM

An hour ago I dumped hot water down toilet, now it is full. At the same time I ran totally hot water in bedroom sink and shower for about 10 minutes. Prior to that I had heat in water convenience compartment. Have tried black tank handle twice now and no go. It is 24 degrees out and it looks like this will be the high, no sun and snowing. DW just took a shower so I am going to run more hot water through drain line and try black valve again. What's bad is DW has a colonoscopy tomorrow and she has to start drinking the prep junk about 6pm. Guess we won't be staying here tonight unless the black tank can be dumped!

Alwims · 12-08-2013, 10:42 AM

Here is what I did to avoid the problems you are having although my solution for you is like locking the barn door after the horse got out. After you get unthawed, you might consider this. I bought all my supplies at Lowes. While I had the bottom down repairing our black tank, before I put the bottom back up I laid this between the black and grey tanks so it wouldn't burn anything. The shield keeps it safe. The thermostat turns the lamp on at 38 degrees and off at 50 degrees. I've got a remote thermostat in there to monitor it and it works perfect. The coldest we've had is 9 degrees and it was 50 degrees in the bottom where our tanks and all the water lines run.

tweber502 · 12-08-2013, 10:47 AM

If you have a small ceramic heater and a fan you can put them in the basement storage compartment. Turn the heater on and aim the fan towards the upper rear part of the compartment. This will blow the warm air over the rear wall of the compartment and into the area where the valves are located. Also if you have a second fan, you can have it blowing into the wooden vents in the steps leading to the bedroom. This will also blow warm air from the living area into the basement area as well. Hope this helps. Good luck Tim

Irlpguy · 12-08-2013, 10:57 AM

JandC here is a website that might interest you as well as any other folks that are camping where the possibility of temperatures below freezing exist.

http://www.annodindustries.com/shop/...-valve-heaters

This company makes tank, pipe, elbow and valve heaters, some are dual voltage and some are only 13VDC.

Before trading in on the bigger Montana my SOB had dual voltage tank heaters installed at the factory, they could be on when traveling (12V) and 120V when on shore power, we camped with that unit in some below 0 temps and never had a tank problem.

The black tank would really benefit from these heaters because we cannot leave the valve open at all times since we need the water in there.

Hope your valve has thawed out and you don't have to move out for the night.

Alwims · 12-08-2013, 11:23 AM

We have three of the setups I referenced above. The difference is we use a 250 watt red heat lamp in our homemade water and sewer center. We hung Harbor Freight Tools moving blankets under the rig creating a kind of a 4'x 10' alcove behind the skirting. You might consider this even if you don't have the whole rig skirted. We also have a remote thermostat in there and it rarely reads below 50 degrees and it never gets below 38 degrees. We also have the same setup in the basement just in case as there are exposed water lines in there also.

Irlpguy · 12-08-2013, 11:59 AM

Probably too late to solve your problem today but if you have a gate valve where your sewer hose hooks on to the sewer pipe you might try closing that and dumping lots of hot water down the bathroom sink or shower, this should back up to the black tank valve and thaw it out. Just a late thought that might help.

Unless you are skirted in like Alwims there is so much heat loss under the unit that I would not trust the "arctic insulation" package to have any affect below perhaps 20 deg F.

Alwims · 12-08-2013, 12:58 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Irlpguy

Probably too late to solve your problem today but if you have a gate valve where your sewer hose hooks on to the sewer pipe you might try closing that and dumping lots of hot water down the bathroom sink or shower, this should back up to the black tank valve and thaw it out. Just a late thought that might help.

Unless you are skirted in like Alwims there is so much heat loss under the unit that I would not trust the "arctic insulation" package to have any affect below perhaps 20 deg F.

I was never so disappointed when I pulled the hard plastic down and discover the so called "Artic Insulation" was an 1/4" piece of silver bubble rap laying on the hard plastic. It did appear there was insulation under the floor, but protecting the tanks and water pipes was that stupid piece of bubble rap. I'm not sure I would trust it down to 20 degrees. Ours is a 2004 model so I hope and pray Montana is doing a better job now days with their "Artic Package".

JandC · 12-08-2013, 01:56 PM

Finally was able to pull the black tank handle and nothing came out. It has been stiff in the past. Leaving it open I closed the bedroom grey and ran about 30 gallons of warm water in that tank. I then opened that grey to get the blast through the discharge. Once before (during warm weather) when I opened the black it didn't drain but as soon as I opened the grey it started it draining. I had implemented most of the posted suggestions as far as putting extra heat in the belly and basement. So now I am thinking it isn't frozen but my black tank cable or gate is broke in the closed position. There is an RV dealer less than a mile away so I will be at his place as soon as I get DW back from her tests. For now we are checked into a nice lodge a half mile away. Left the Monte with all the heat still going. What is bad now, if the dealer has to take it in and tear into it, we were suppose to leave for Florida a week from tomorrow. I assume there are improved gates/cables dealers can install for these tanks? Thanks to all for your replies thru the day today.

Alwims · 12-08-2013, 02:19 PM

I forgot to say, good luck to the wife. I've had a few of those tests and they ain't no fun.

**DQDick** · 12-08-2013, 03:24 PM

We'll keep all your issues in our prayers!

DarMar · 12-09-2013, 02:51 AM

We hope everything goes much better for you and the DW today, good luck and prayers from here.

**DQDick** · 12-09-2013, 03:35 AM

I did have one other thought last night. If it's cold and windy enough you could have cold air coming up your sewer hose and causing problems at the valves. The pipes are outside of the rig until almost at the valves. Using a hair dryer on the pipe where it disappears into the rig could help. Just a thought.

JandC · 12-09-2013, 05:42 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by DQDick

I did have one other thought last night. If it's cold and windy enough you could have cold air coming up your sewer hose and causing problems at the valves. The pipes are outside of the rig until almost at the valves. Using a hair dryer on the pipe where it disappears into the rig could help. Just a thought.

Thanks DQDick, that was one of the last things I tried yesterday. I layed on my back with a heat gun and tried heating up the elbow and pipe where it turned back into underbelly. After doing that and having extra heat in convenience center I think is why I was finally able to pull black handle out. It pulled easier than normal though and still nothing came out. Factory tank gauge has never worked right but it did show full when all this started. Got back from DW tests today and black tank gauge showed 2/3 full. I am wondering it gate may be open just a crack. Dealer can possibly get me in tomorrow afternoon, which is good since it is only 19 now and suppose to get down to 10 tonight. No matter what he finds I think I want a new gate valve and some type of heat blanket installed.

travelinsparky · 12-09-2013, 06:41 AM

You might think about the elect gates. Just a thought, if you have to replace cables.

JandC · 12-09-2013, 11:00 AM

Now I know where that saying came from "Happy Camper", bacause I am. The tech from Four Winds (listed Montana dealer/repair facility) which is just down the road called me back after I was in there and said they actually couldn't get me in until Thursday or possibly Friday and wouldn't guarentee us being on the road south by Monday. So I wanted to be sure that my black was still full and the black gate valve was in fact not working. I had DW pour a gallon of RV antifreeze down the toilet while I stood outside and watched the sewer hose, it immediately came out. Ok, now I closed the black tank handle and had her pour another gallon or RV antifreeze down the toilet plus run a bunch of water.....noting came out. I am out there in the snow dancing around like a crazy man! I am still suspect of this gate valve but I know I can either deal with it myself in Florida or have a dealer down there do it, either way it can be fixed in 80 degree weather instead of the current temperature of 17. Thanks to all for suggestions! This forum is like your own huge support group!

tweber502 · 12-09-2013, 11:14 AM

Joe, thanks for the update, so happy the valve has decided to work once again! I hope you have a safe trip to Florida and stay warm!

Alwims · 12-09-2013, 12:28 PM

I'm not trying to be the spoiler, but be sure and check it out when you get to warmer weather as, if the valve is partially open, as you suspected in an earlier post, it may be letting the liquid out but not open enough to let all the solids out. I hope and pray I'm all wet, for your sake. I helped a person clean out solids from his tank a few years ago and I will never do it again. I'll help someone install a new tank before I tackle that job again.

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