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Old 08-25-2010, 04:34 PM   #1
KTManiac
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I have a beef with Keystone!

.........We interrupt this program for an important message!.........


[rant]

OK, been having so-so antenna reception of digital channels, so I went to CW to check out the WingMan attachment on sale there. Find out that the antenna that Keystone fitted my (built in Oct. 2009) 5er with is a Winegard Sensar II model. Well, it turns out that this model is not a DTV model. They put digital televisions in the damned trailer with an antenna that is not designed for digital tv?!?! WTH!!!!

They should have fitted it out with the Sensar III unit, which is optimized for enhanced digital reception. Now, Winegard has released the Sensar IV this February, that is supposed to be even better yet.

***********************
I can just see the company memo now.....

Keystone warehouse worker:

"Hmmm, we have a boat load of these Sensar II antennae which aren't really good for anything anymore since broadcast television is all digital now. What should we do with these things?"


Keystone bean counter:

"Hey, I know! Let's just put 'em on all of our new trailers anyway. The customers won't know the difference and probably won't figure it out until it's too late for it to be our problem anymore. Yeah, that's it!"
***********************


This kind of stuff just chaps my rear-end!

[/rant]

.........Now, we return to our regularly scheduled program.........

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Old 08-25-2010, 05:20 PM   #2
helmick
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You must have a Canadian Montana, they have not switched to digital.

We also get up to 70 channels with our 2007.
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Old 08-25-2010, 05:21 PM   #3
richfaa
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Holy Moley... My 3400 is a 06 and the original antenna is up there and we get great digital/HD reception. 17 channels here in the Cleveland area and if we move the antenna a little west we pick up Detroit, Toledo for 27. 70HD channels when in the Orlando, Fla area, I will go up there tomorrow and see what is up there...
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Old 08-25-2010, 05:36 PM   #4
8.1al
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Lots of digital channels on our 2004
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Old 08-25-2010, 05:42 PM   #5
TAKPAK
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No problem with our 2007. We DID add the "wingman" add-on to the antennae, but I don't think we really needed to. I have been told by various TV technicians that it is not so much the antennae as it is the receiver or TV that matters. I can believe that, as we have a "many years old" (read analog) rooftop antennae on the stick house, and it works just fine on digital.
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Old 08-25-2010, 08:00 PM   #6
dieselguy
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The only thing digital about the new "digital antennas" is in the advertising. Any reputable installer will explain this to you. You may have to buy the little add on for your batwing that brings in UHF or VHF (I can't remember which) better if you're in fringe areas, but that's about it for the so called "digital antenna". As mentioned in earlier posts ... the receiver in the TV can make a world of difference as far as bringing in the available broadcast.
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Old 08-25-2010, 08:34 PM   #7
KTManiac
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I do get some channels, but I feel that it should have much better reception than what it is. I don't get ABC at all, .....but of course everybody and their brother's evangelical station and shopping network channel comes in five by five, loud and clear, ...go figure.

Of the channels that I care to watch, there is lots of pixelating, freeze framing, and dropped audio on a lot of channels even when turning the antenna for best signal strength for each. Perhaps I should check it all out with different coax and fittings and see what happens.

Lord only knows how poorly the coax cable and junctions were cobbled together at the factory. They definitely made a complete botch job of the surround sound wiring, with speaker wires jammed willy-nilly into the back of the receiver. It would have been better for them to have not done anything at all, than what they did do. I was flabbergasted.

If old, pre-digital antennae work so good, why do they have new ones optimized for DTV? .......It makes me wonder.

Anyway, sorry about the previous rant. Sometimes I get my knickers in a knot over mechanical/technical things that don't function as they should. I suppose if I figured out how much actual time I have watched free network tv, as opposed to cable tv & DVD's, in my trailer over the last 2 years, ...it would total to probably less than 5 hours. Maybe not so important after all.
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Old 08-26-2010, 01:00 AM   #8
Bob Pasternak
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Are you sure the booster is on when you're using the batwing???
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Old 08-26-2010, 02:01 AM   #9
jimcol
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KT, It's OK to get your knickers in a knot and rant from time to time. Certain things on certain days just tend to p--- a person off. Besides your rant provided you some feedback to check other things. Our 2006 has great digital reception but it did show the errors of poor coax connectors. Replacing the connectors fixed the digital reception problem.
" If old, pre-digital antennae work so good, why do they have new ones optimized for DTV? .......It makes me wonder." Because "DTV" sells things. Everyone wants to think they have the latest and greatest. Like "New and Improved". Jim
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Old 08-26-2010, 03:53 AM   #10
HamRad
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KTManiac,
There is nothing wrong with a good rant from time to time. But you might be interested in reading the info below taken from the Digital TV Transition site.

Can I Use My UHF/VHF Antenna to Receive DTV?

Yes. Television stations broadcasting in digital use both the VHF (channels 2-13) and UHF (channels 14-51) bands. Many indoor antennas use “rabbit ears” for the VHF band and a “loop” or “bow-tie” antenna for the UHF band.

dtv illustration

* Make sure you are using an antenna that covers both the VHF and UHF bands and have connected it properly. Many antennas currently being sold as “HDTV Antennas,” perform best at receiving UHF signals; some of these models state that they provide reception of signals on channels 7-13 but actually perform less well receiving those channels. When acquiring a new antenna, be sure to talk to retail consultants and look at information on the packaging and/or the Internet to make sure that any new antenna you may choose provides good reception of both VHF and UHF channels. In addition, if you use an indoor antenna and receive signals on VHF channels, you may need to use an antenna with amplification. You can use the DTV Reception Maps on the dtv.gov website at http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/ to identify the stations you should be able to receive at your location. For more information on antennas, see the Antenna Guide or Consumer Tips for DTV Reception on VHF TV Channels 2-13.
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Old 08-26-2010, 05:41 AM   #11
Fire5er
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Only question I have is, did you turn on the TVs and see what the reception was like during your PDI? If not then, WTH. Caveat emptor.
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Old 08-26-2010, 06:09 AM   #12
CamillaMichael
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You wrote you had a beef with Keystone...did not see any reply from them???
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Old 08-26-2010, 09:11 AM   #13
RVWheels
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Do not expect to see a reply from Keystone here. Actually we would prefer to have any and all replies from any manufacturer respond directly to the individuals involved. If the individual chooses to share any response then that is completely acceptable.
RVWheels, MOC Admin.
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Old 08-26-2010, 09:17 AM   #14
richfaa
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BTW.. We did have fuzzy reception on Digital on the TV in the rear. It was OK on Satellite and the one in the front was OK. We found a bad splitter in the cabinet above the TV....Check everything the digital HD Tv's are very sensitive.
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Old 08-26-2010, 09:36 AM   #15
ols1932
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I don't understand. We have two digital, HD brand new televisions in our rig and receive broadcast stations very clearly. I would venture to say that my Winegard antenna is one of the "old" ones since our rig is a 2000 model.

I'm guessing there is something else wrong, not the antenna.

Orv
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Old 08-27-2010, 06:19 AM   #16
soonerhooligan
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I think the point that KT's trying to make is that Keytone outfitted his new rig with an outdated piece of equipment.
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Old 08-27-2010, 06:32 AM   #17
Tom S.
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by KTManiac

.........We interrupt this program for an important message!.........


[rant]

OK, been having so-so antenna reception of digital channels, so I went to CW to check out the WingMan attachment on sale there. Find out that the antenna that Keystone fitted my (built in Oct. 2009) 5er with is a Winegard Sensar II model. Well, it turns out that this model is not a DTV model. They put digital televisions in the damned trailer with an antenna that is not designed for digital tv?!?! WTH!!!!

They should have fitted it out with the Sensar III unit, which is optimized for enhanced digital reception. Now, Winegard has released the Sensar IV this February, that is supposed to be even better yet.

***********************
I can just see the company memo now.....

Keystone warehouse worker:

"Hmmm, we have a boat load of these Sensar II antennae which aren't really good for anything anymore since broadcast television is all digital now. What should we do with these things?"


Keystone bean counter:

"Hey, I know! Let's just put 'em on all of our new trailers anyway. The customers won't know the difference and probably won't figure it out until it's too late for it to be our problem anymore. Yeah, that's it!"
***********************


This kind of stuff just chaps my rear-end!

[/rant]

.........Now, we return to our regularly scheduled program.........

I believe you are a victim not of Keystone, but of Winegard. I'd be willing to bet that if you put one of their 'new digital' antennas up against their older models, you'd be hard pressed to see much difference. Of course Winegard would be more than happy to sell you one of their new and 'vastly' improved models.
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Old 08-27-2010, 07:04 AM   #18
CamillaMichael
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by RVWheels

Do not expect to see a reply from Keystone here. Actually we would prefer to have any and all replies from any manufacturer respond directly to the individuals involved. If the individual chooses to share any response then that is completely acceptable.
RVWheels, MOC Admin.
Nor did I expect to see Keystone respond in this forum...was referring to poster's not providing any indication of contact with the manufacturer.
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Old 08-27-2010, 08:05 AM   #19
8.1al
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You've got it Tom, nobody got cheated here, digital works just fine with the older antennas. There are 2 problems with digital. With analog if you were far from the station you got a fuzzy picture but stil a picture, with digital no picture. Also as you to farther away digital becomes very directional.
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Old 08-27-2010, 09:35 AM   #20
RVWheels
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CamillaMichael,
Thank you for the clarification regarding response from Keystone.
RVWheels
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