question? - Montana Owners Club

phil59 · 09-02-2009, 05:25 PM

We are proud owners of a new Montana as of this afternoon. Will be taking it out this labor day weekend. I was just wondering the purpose of the second grey water tank and why does it have a separate drain up under the kitchen area away from the other black and grey drains in the front storage areas. By the way it is a 3455sa.

HughM · 09-02-2009, 05:32 PM

Congrads on your new Montanna. The second grey water tank is for the kitchen and is separate from the shower and bedroom sink. You'll appreciate the extra holding capacity.
Hugh

phil59 · 09-02-2009, 05:34 PM

That is a good deal but why is the drain up under the kitchen area and not with the others

dsprik · 09-02-2009, 06:21 PM

That's where the tank/valve is and it seems to be a bit of a problem for Montana to figure out a better solution than putting the galley handle between the two axles (in most Montana models), which most of us hate.

**Rondo** · 09-02-2009, 06:44 PM

I'm no expert on this but I would venture to say that the tank is closest to the actual drain or kitchen sink. Diana I don't know if yours is a brand spankin' new unit or not and if you have your handle to empty it between or infront of the wheels but ours is between the wheels which as "dsprik" it seems that Montana and Keystone have not figured out a better solution to that problem. I would say that it could be a reason of balance somewhat to keep the unit a little more balanced when the tanks are full and not put a lot more stress on the frame with that added weigh from a third tank in one spot. If I'm not mistaken the newer units have a 38-40 gallon galley and grey tank and a larger blackwater tank. With H2O weighing in at about 7.5 lbs per gallon that would be approximately another 345 lbs of weight plus in that location per tank. Granted most would not have their tanks full and roll down the road with them for very far, if at all, but that would be another half ton of weight and stress on the frame if all tanks were located in one location. As I said I'm not an expert on this and I guess we can find out the "real" answer when we go to Goshen in about 19 days for the Fall Rally and the tour of the plant that Saturday. I'll try and remember this question to ask and I'm sure Dave will remind me of it also!

Since we're fellow Nebraskans maybe all of the MOCrs from around here and we'll invite the rest if they want to come to a rally or camping weekend sometime and discuss our rigs and the "Joys of owning a Montana"

and being a MOC star!!

grampachet · 09-02-2009, 07:35 PM

Rondo, actually water weighs 8.34 +- pounds per gallon if I remember correctly.

rames14 · 09-03-2009, 01:13 AM

I believe the issue isn't the location of the tank, but of the drain handle. I also don't know why they couldn't have used a flexible drain handle and positioned it in a more convenient location. Our new 365 Big Sky is even harder to get to than our '05 3400. If that's my worst complaint, I guess that's okay.

bncinwv · 09-03-2009, 02:33 AM

Grampachet is correct on the water weight. I believe the 7.5 (7.48 actually) is the conversion factor for gallons of water in a cubic foot. Sorry, the engineer in me had to come out at some point!!

Back on topic, welcome to the forum and please share questions, answers, experiences, etc. etc.
Bingo

Mudchief · 09-03-2009, 03:06 AM

The fun part is when you go to pull it someday and the whole metal stem comes out in your hand. It is fun trying to get it screwed back in. Some go in and put a locking nut on it. For me I just turn the metal stem to the right from time to time to make sure it is tight.

dsprik · 09-03-2009, 04:09 AM

Actually pure water is 8.344 lb/gal @ 32° F and 8.288 lb/gal @ 100° F. Any impurities/solution mixes will alter that weight and also change the boiling/freezing points.

Bingo is right at 7.48051 gals of water in one cubic ft.

I also do exactly what Dennis does with my handles - keep spinning them clockwise almost every time I touch them. A "reflex" action from also having had a handle come off in my hand and then struggling with the belly panels/gas lines underneath to reattach it.

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Rondo

I'll try and remember this question to ask and I'm sure Dave will remind me of it also!

Remind you of what??? Maybe I'm not a good source for that, Ron...

I'll have my wife remind me to remind you...

richfaa · 09-03-2009, 04:34 AM

The black and grey tanks are close together hence the drain handles are close togeter. The gally tank is seperate from the others and it will save a few bucks per unit to have the drain near the tank and not run it with the others.

It has been along time since science class. I alwas figured water at 8.33 lbs per gallon. Also remember that can vary a bit with density and pressure. There was a formula to calculate but that was "In the old days" when we did not have the science we have now. How aboutit Science teacher???

**Rondo** · 09-03-2009, 04:38 AM

I stand corrected on the weight of H2O

but with the even greater weight that make even more sense to not have the tanks all in one location. Noneck sent me pictures of the valve he put in and if I can figure out how to add them to this thread I'll put them on. He did use a flexible cable and pull handle on his valve and if I recall he came out the back of his Monte with the handle to make easier access to it. Maybe he will come along here and freshen my memory.Yah,where Paul at in this question? He should be able to give us the info on the weight deal!

Maybe being an engineer he can explain it even better!

dsprik · 09-03-2009, 04:52 AM

As an oilfield engineer, we used the 8.33 figure as a standard. Very critical as we weighed the drilling fluid as we were drilling oil and gas wells. The exact weight of the column of fluid in the hole is what kept the well from blowing out (and invoking a visit from Red Adair). Also, it could not be too heavy as we could blow the bottom out of the hole, lose our column of fluid and have the hole then cave in on us and stick tens of thousands of dollars worth of drill pipe and bit in the hole, OR then have it blow out on us.

As an aside (as if the above wasn't) BP just drilled the world's deepest well in the Gulf. Over 35,000 ft (over 6.6 miles down). Interesting as the earths crust only averages 6 miles... and even less in ocean regions...

Anyway, I would be curious to see how other brands of fifth wheels handled this handle problem (pun intended)...

8e3k0 · 09-03-2009, 08:45 AM

Wow!! Weights and Measures; try the old Imperial System where one Canadian gallon weighed 10 lbs. and now the metric system; seems as though we continue to calculate and convert.
On the oilfield side; we have a lot of wells in the 25,000 foot plus depth here in Alberta. Lets see; that's about 25,000feet X 0.304801 = 7620 meters in depth.
To stay on topic, we have had no problems yet with the three valves or handles; I try to pull very gentle and straight.

noneck · 09-03-2009, 02:25 PM

Ok...I'm here and all these posts are on target...
Reason for the handle on Galley located between tires is to keep the "fluid" above the belly pan as drain piping makes immediate 180 degree turn down and out. Above belly pan = freeze protection.
I added the valve/6' cable to mine so the handle now is located at the rear of the big slide (going forward was my plan but w/axles, brake wiring penetrations made pulling that belly pan required cutting it...this method allowed rear two belly pans to come off and be returned unmodified/cut.
Actuating galley drain is now easy with slide out as I just reach under without crawling...yep, lazy noneck, but happy noneck.

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