Unhappy Montana owner right now! - Page 5 - Montana Owners Club

Golfmedik · 10-02-2016, 02:16 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

keystone said at the fall rally that all Montans's will be equipped with two 15.5 BTU A/C's and pre wired for a third AC.

If that were to be true, then I would look for all of the upcoming rigs to have 3 on them with the load management systems like the newer toyhaulers.

Golfmedik · 10-03-2016, 09:10 AM

Well, it didn't go as planned according to the service manager. The glue "somewhat" held the panel, but would still move 1/16". So they will need the camper for at least a week. The bedroom slide needs to be removed as well as the panel at the bed and into the front closet. They stated that more glue is going to have to be added higher up on the sidewall. This is really beginning to wear on me. My thoughts are now wondering if there is an aluminum wall frame failure that has allowed this to happen.

Golfmedik · 10-05-2016, 02:51 PM

Well, picked up the camper today from the dealer. It had been returned from the Marive?RV specialty repair center near Lake Lanier. According to the dealer, now a well known establishment to all the major brand RVs and boats manufacturers. This facility repairs all fiberglass and structural components on just about anything. The service manager said that my Montana was one of the 'cheaper' rigs on the lot with multi-million dollar motorhomes, boats and high end 5ers. He said, I am by no means putting down the Montana, but there are numerous 5ers there of over a hundred grand. Most have a defect or have been involved in a collision of some sort.
Anyway, I got clarification of what Montana wants to do next. Take a look at this pic.

The center section between the nose and the slide has to be taken out as they believe the frame "cage" has a broken component. There is a seam at the bottom, but not at the top. YET! The slide will be removed and the section will be cut and removed to gain access to the studs and front nose top/bottom frame. That is where they believe something is now wrong. A new set of decals has already been ordered for the left front. The section will be examined and repaired ever how they see fit. Then it will be put back together with a seam at the top, just like the one at the bottom. It will only be about a 6" seam at the top that will be hidden by the slide topper. When I asked about possible delam, I was told that it should never be a problem the way that it will be done. The owner of the business assured the dealer that no one will ever be able to tell what has been done. Stated they have done many like this with great success.
So the unit will be delivered back to them the week following my trip and will be down for about a week. They told me not to stress over this as it will be done correctly. I'm still not sure about the side wall of the camper being cut, although 3 of the new ones I saw on the lot today from Montana to Big Country have that section with a seam!
The skirts were repaired while the unit was at this new service center and my dealer changed out the resetting breakers on the hydraulic pump and the AC thermostats. As well as a few other odds and ends I'd found.
So, I will keep you updated as we go along. Sorry for the long post.

**Carl n Susan** · 10-05-2016, 07:19 PM

You should try to get someone at Keystone to research the "Field Repair" that was preformed on many, many 3700/3800's in the 2013 time frame. They had a serious issue where the wall and the frame separated (broke). I was one of the first to encounter the problem. The solution in my case was to ship a new wall assembly to their Pendleton, OR plant, tow my trailer to meet the new wall, remove/replace the wall, re-paint/re-decal, and tow the Montana back to my dealer. Keystone quickly figured out that, with the rate of failures, this was too expensive of a solution for everyone.

Hence the development of the "Field Repair". I don't recall the details but it involved screws, special glue, and pressure. The key to this repair was it was something a competent dealer (and they soon discovered how many non-competent ones they had) could fix without taking the excessive/expensive measures I received. There are several members here who had this "fix" and could probably describe it in further detail.

I am pointing this out as the "fix" did not involve cutting the sidewall. I would be concerned about diminishing the structural integrity of the wall (which is bonded to the frame) by cutting it.

P.S. Have you noticed that your postings tend to cause major left/right scrolling? The reason for this is Photobucket. They changed their "forum" code which you use to display the picture in a posting. It is now in HTML format. Unfortunately, the MOC software doesn't understand HTML code. Consequently it pukes (a technical term for screwing up the formatting) when it attempts to process it.

For example, here is the code Photobucket provided you for your latest picture:
[img][IMG]http://www.montanaowners.com/attachments/photobucket/img_621266_0_c2d70e87943d04289620d20b1fc4178e.jpg[/IMG][/img]

(I bet you added the [img] and [/img] tags at the beginning and end of the Photobucket supplied code?)

In reality, all you need is the portion of the string starting with "[IMG]" and ending with "[/IMG]". I highlighted the tags in RED above.

The code string you need looks like this:
[[/b]IMG]http://www.montanaowners.com/attachments/photobucket/img_621266_0_c2d70e87943d04289620d20b1fc4178e.jpg[/IMG]

If you cut/paste the above string into your posting, it will look like this and will eliminate the irritating scrolling:
[b]

Golfmedik · 10-05-2016, 11:08 PM

Quote:

quote:

For example, here is the code Photobucket provided you for your latest picture:
[img][IMG]http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc390/golfmedik/2016%20Montana/IMG_20161005_134541350_zps2qnh3ufg.jpg[/IMG][/img]

(I bet you added the [img] and [/img] tags at the beginning and end of the Photobucket supplied code?)

In reality, all you need is the portion of the string starting with "[IMG]" and ending with "[/IMG]". I highlighted the tags in RED above.

The code string you need looks like this:
[[/b]IMG]http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc390/golfmedik/2016%20Montana/IMG_20161005_134541350_zps2qnh3ufg.jpg[/IMG]

If you cut/paste the above string into your posting, it will look like this and will eliminate the irritating scrolling:[/font=Comic Sans MS][/size=3][/blue]
[b]
[IMG]http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc390/golfmedik/2016%20Montana/IMG_20161005_134541350_zps2qnh3ufg.jpg[/IMG

No, I used the way I was told to by the mod and used the software here to post. At first I did that when I joined, haven't in the last couple of months. I will try this next time.

Finally able to sit at computer and get it changed. Thanks!

Irlpguy · 10-08-2016, 09:29 AM

Golfmedik here is a copy of the "field repair" instructions referred to by carl n susan. This was given to me by the local dealer that performed this repair on my 3402RL. There are two other pages that show the clamping and how the use of screws was to be performed.
The glue used was a two part epoxy that had to be ordered from Keystone and they also sent out their application gun to perform this repair.

My bedroom slide was removed, the front cap was partially removed and the undercover was dropped so they could inspect the welds at the hitch and frame. Due to the frame flex the outside wall had separated from the aluminum wall frame. It was poorly glued in the first place as is indicated by this picture I took while at the dealer.

The split in the sidewall below the slideout was incorporated quite some time ago as a result of constant cracking in that location due to the frame flex issues. What is being proposed to you as a solution to your problem will "not" solve the frame flex issue but may allow the wall to move at the lower and upper point without showing in the future. It does make that portion of the wall independent of the rest of the sidewall, good or bad who knows.
The "field" repair done on my unit in no way addressed the frame flex, it still flexes. It did however help in "reducing" the noticeable effect of that flex, how long it will continue to do so remains to be seen.

I have said this before and will say it again, the "only" way to address the issue of flexing is to address the frame itself by lengthening the support for the overhang well back of the crazy 2 ft that is the current design.

My issue with Keystone on this problem has to do with the way it was dealt with in my case and continues to be dealt with in all other cases. It appears they have not addressed the issue, nor have they resolved it going forward.

**Carl n Susan** · 10-08-2016, 10:56 AM

[quote]quote:Originally posted by Golfmedik

Quote:

....Finally able to sit at computer and get it changed. Thanks!...
>/snip>

I have been using Chrome as a browser (rather than my standard Firefox) for the MOC. After your update, Chrome was still insisting on making me scroll a huge amount. I cleared cache and everything with no change. Yet FF and Internet Explorer now display the post without scrolling. I have no idea why Chrome is doing this, but I am back to using FF for the MOC again.

Weird!

Golfmedik · 10-08-2016, 11:16 PM

Thank you Ed for the description. Last night while cleaning the camper I found the diagram similar to yours about what they wanted the dealer to do. The place that is repairing it for my dealer is well familiar with this type of repair. But I'm like you, stop the flex!

Golfmedik · 10-17-2016, 01:18 AM

Today the camper goes back to the dealer and the repairing dealer for a small list of things other than the side wall flex.
AC units will NOT cool the unit, even when it's 80* outside!With it 80 on the exterior, when cooking, the inside heats up to 84* with the air ON!
The Jensen computer system shuts down with no warning.
The hydraulic slides will shut down an average of 14 times while moving. Sometimes a restart of the Jensen system has to be done. The jacks are now fine as they have new resetting breakers.
The banister behind the love seat has come loose form the wall.(small thing I know)
Maybe once we get past these things, the camper will be enjoyable. But other than a place to stay while camping, this one so far, has not been pleasurable!

jameswbarton · 10-17-2016, 04:48 AM

Sorry to hear about Your Woes. I also just returned from a short road trip with a flooded basement. Multiple plumbing leaks. Unfortunately the soonest Warranty Repair appointment is November 22 due to others needing assistance ahead of Me. So a great majority of time is wasted in waiting for service in Mid Michigan!

Golfmedik · 10-17-2016, 09:36 AM

If your camper has the outside faucet with the quick connect in it, take down the back wall and check the screw on connectors on the back of the faucet. Two of my friend's newest campers were loose on and flooded there's as well. Simple fix if it is.

Golfmedik · 10-17-2016, 11:51 AM

Camper was delivered to the repair facility today. I talked to the owner of the business as well as the tech. What is thought to be wrong is the front, bottom corner of the frame around the slide, the weld has broken. They will know for sure once the slide is out and the side wall pulled back. I will update as I find out anything.

Golfmedik · 10-21-2016, 10:45 AM

Here she is with the nose missing
[

This is the wall where the repair was made a couple of weeks ago. Already loose.

Notice the roof pulled back. They are readying the slide for removal later today.

Golfmedik · 10-26-2016, 02:47 PM

FINALLY!!! Once the side wall was pulled back, it was very apparent what the problem was. The side stud of the bedroom slide was apparently about 3/8" too short and was just held in place with a tack weld. The other thing that was troubling, is look at where the weld is and the little extra pieces of aluminum they put under it to get make it longer!!!JUST DAMN!! It's on the weak, side wall of the tubing instead of near the corner. Plus, you can see that only a small section of the weld held and started to rip the beam underneath. No wonder it turned loose! The gap at the bottom of the stud was filled in with a small piece of aluminum and welded top and bottom to secure it. Also had gussets put on each side of the stud at the bottom and welded. I don't have pics of that for some reason. I know I took them. Below is a couple of pics of the problem and the movement with the skin removed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY87cdDrhLc

Ragtacker · 10-26-2016, 03:02 PM

Holy jumpin crap balls! That is absolutely unbelievable where's the quality control? Or pride in workmanship? Wow I am really shocked, doesn`t enforce the buying decision much and I have the same trailer. Thanks for keeping this thread going I sure know what to keep an eye out for now. Wow I am blown away

Golfmedik · 10-26-2016, 03:22 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Ragtacker

Holy jumpin crap balls! That is absolutely unbelievable where's the quality control? Or pride in workmanship? Wow I am really shocked, doesn`t enforce the buying decision much and I have the same trailer. Thanks for keeping this thread going I sure know what to keep an eye out for now. Wow I am blown away

I am beyond infuriated!! There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for this type of work. I'm really now second guessing my decision with the Montana, but I keep reminding myself that this type of work is totally possible in each brand as they are building them WAY too fast these days so they can meet demand. The other bad thing is that EVERY stud on that left front was this short!!!! However, none of the others are in a spot to lift or bear weight like this one is. Still, it's almost embarrassing!

1retired06 · 10-26-2016, 03:32 PM

Keystone should reimburse you for all time, travel, and any other expenses incurred. Sloppy don't give a s---t work ethic. Whoever did that knew there would be trouble for the owner. More than sloppy, an intentional patch job.

richfaa · 10-26-2016, 03:37 PM

I hope you are sending these post and pictures to Keystone owner relations

jameswbarton · 10-26-2016, 03:42 PM

In a typical manufacturing environment it would be highly unlikely that your coach is the only one with this defect. So did the short members and bad welds go on for hours days or weeks. Obviously no one inspected the welds on your unit.

You should not make excuses for the Keystone poor workmanship. If sales are good, money is flowing, profits are good and they are taking advantage of owners who will put up with and pay for poor quality.

Golfmedik · 10-26-2016, 04:00 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by jameswbarton

You should not make excuses for the Keystone poor workmanship. If sales are good, money is flowing, profits are good and they are taking advantage of owners who will put up with and pay for poor quality.

I'm really not making excuses, I'm trying to prevent myself from having a stroke about now. I'm beyond livid. And you are correct, now we all know this didn't just happen with this unit after seeing this.

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