all of a sudden part 2

[dandt]

Well......here is a stumped question......we have voltage to all plugs but no ampage. Ampage goes to GFI but after that no more....
Part of the rig works but not other part.....any thoughts oh mighty Mocers??????

[Art-n-Marge]

If there is nothing turned on in the circuit to draw amperage you will have voltage but no amperage draw. How and what are you using to measure this? What are you using at the GFCI to measure the amperage and how much amps is it? The ammeter has to be in series with the circuit, but you only put the probes across (in parallel) to measure voltage.

It's been a while since I had my electronics courses and I'm having difficulty visualizing what and how you are doing these measurements.

[rohrmann]

It sounds like your GFI outlet has failed. Like Art said, you can only have current flow with something connected and turned on. If the outlet hasn't failed, then you have a loose connection, probably at the outlet. I haven't had a need to inspect the connections on ours, but if the wires are connected with the non-screw holes, that could be the location of the bad connection. Just be sure you have no voltage when checking for connections, either with the specific breaker turned off, or if you are not sure, open up the main breaker. If you are not comfortable doing this, spend the money or get a friend who knows what they are doing.

[dandt]

We had an RV repair come in and he is stumped also. Power to GFI and bypassed GFI and still can not get power to the rest of the circuit. Repair said we lost our neutral? By the way it is also effecting the frig. We are using a high end voltage meter and this cool tool tht when you hold it by the outlet it tells you if it has continusasy. Neighbor is an electrican, and he and tech are stumped. Any thoughts anyone........

[rohrmann]

Well. if you don't have a neutral, nothing will work, as you need the neutral to complete the circuit. Would start at the source, check the panel and socket you are plugged into, then check your power cord, then see if there is neutral at the power center. Somewhere, you lost a connection, whether it fell apart, burned up, or whatever. The basics are, the hot legs are the source power that delivers current to the load, the neutral is also a current carrying conductor but it is carrying current away from the load, and the ground does not carry current, but bonds the parts of your appliances and other loads back to the the earth which is what protects you in case something shorts out in the appliance or tool.

[Irlpguy]

Might be making a stab in the dark "forgive the pun" here, but it seems to me the Neutral is tied to Ground in our Montana's. It might be possible that you are showing voltage using the cool tool possibly like this or even an expensive volt meter:



It will certainly indicate there is a live wire there but if the Neutral wire on that circuit is broken or if it is broken at any point from the pedestal to the outlets you will have no current flow.

If the fridge that you say is not working also happens to be tied to this circuit then I would think the neutral at one of the outlets in the effected circuit has a broken neutral.

If all other circuits in the unit are the same then as rohrmann suggests, start at the pedestal and work your way along, if not then isolate the circuit and concentrate on removing covers and checking each one in the affected circuit.

[rohrmann]

Actually, by code, your neutral and ground should be isolated from each other. That is the reason for a four-wire cable on a 50amp system, or a 3-wire cable on a 30amp system. The only place the ground and the neutral are tied to a common bus bar should be at the main service panel where the utility delivers the power, typically at the meter panel. There should be two bus bars in the panel in the RV, one grounded to the RV frame which is where the ground conductor would be attached, and the other which is the neutral bus bar, which should be isolated from the panel. If this is not done this way, there will be a condition where current will be present on the ground conductor, which it is not supposed to be for.

[BB_TX]

Have you tried one of these testers? Simple and safe to use for showing common problems with outlets. Available at home improvement stores, hardware stores, probably even Walmart.

[MDL]

quote:Originally posted by rohrmann

It sounds like your GFI outlet has failed. Like Art said, you can only have current flow with something connected and turned on. If the outlet hasn't failed, then you have a loose connection, probably at the outlet. I haven't had a need to inspect the connections on ours, but if the wires are connected with the non-screw holes, that could be the location of the bad connection. Just be sure you have no voltage when checking for connections, either with the specific breaker turned off, or if you are not sure, open up the main breaker. If you are not comfortable doing this, spend the money or get a friend who knows what they are doing.

Agree, my technique has always been to start at the source and work my way back from plug to plug. You can use a simple plug in power detector, but often a multimeter is much better as you can check both the wire coming into the plug, and going out of the plug. I haven't looked at the Montana wiring yet, so I can't speak from experience, but troubleshooting is pretty much the same for most power issues. Often the trick is knowing how it's wired so you can check along the circuit. I wish I was there as it sounds like a "fun" problem to solve. Sorry it happened to you, however!

I've seen bad plugs, but rarely a dropped ground or neutral. Was there anything preceding the power loss, like a hair dryer plugged in or other high current device? That might be a good outlet to start at, but I would typically confirm GFI outlets first as I've seen a higher rate of failure in them, as compared to a standard outlet.

Good luck!

[MDL]

One more thought, do you have a power conditioner in-line that may be partially failing? Is the power correct at the main panel in the Monty? If so, try to ID which circuits are failing, maybe you have a failed leg on one of the power legs coming in or on the power conditioner???

Sorry just read your part 1 posts. From what I can tell, it sure sounds like a bad GFI somewhere in the rig. Bingo suggested an outside outlet, and another the J-Box, all good starting places. Think of it like a treasure hunt, just hope you're not in cold weather!

[steelpony5555]

Take a look at your power cord.. If you have not done anything to relive the tension on the plug where it connects to the trailer it may have pulled one side loose. When that happens the lights will dim and plugs will go out, just makes the electricity do all kinds of weird stuff inside the trailer. Happened on mine and drove me nuts till I took the plug apart. If that is the problem search Amazon or text Ozz to see if he has a right angle adapter to relive the pressure on the plug.

[bncinwv]

That leads to a common check that I usually use first when I detect electrical problems in a rig. If you are hooked up to 50 amp shore power and have a 30 amp cord and receptacle, swap to the 30 amp cord and see if that solves the problem. If everything is functioning correctly on the 30 amp cord, you know the problem is either in your 50 amp shore cord or the 50 amp receptacle, both of which are common problems. When part of the rig works and part doesn't, that is usually an indication that you have lost a leg of the shore feed.
Bingo

[Phil P]

HI

Bingo has a good idea.

If that doesn’t fix it then I would suggest you find a regular house hold electrician to check it out. They run into this kind of problem often and understand the 220V service these trailers use because it is the same circuit used in a house we just don’t use 220V appliances.

Phil P.