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Old 09-18-2013, 11:41 PM   #1
Overlord
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Slides circuit breaker problem......

So, here's the story:
I upgraded from one battery, to a dual 12 volt battery bank. Made a sealed battery box out of a Coleman cooler, it turned out pretty nice. Oh, by the way, this is on a 2009 model Montana.

All of a sudden, I am having a problem with an auto-reset circuit breaker tripping while bringing in the slides. The ground wires are all corrosion free and tight. The crimp on connectors that I added are all copper and were crimped with a hydraulic crimping tool, so I know those are not a factor.


Here is a picture of the circuit breakers and related wiring:



The one that is labeled as Circuit Breaker #1 is a 30amp, and is the one that is tripping.

Before I really figured out where the problem was, I bought a Hi-Amp 80amp auto-reset breaker like the following picture (the one in the pic is a 60amp model though):



Now, from what I can tell from my limited knowledge, the wire labeled as "Black to ???" is connected directly to the battery bank, so I assume it is fuse protected somewhere else down the line. The leads labeled "Orange to ???" and "To Landing Gear Motor" are protected at 30amps by breaker #1.

Are the leads labeled "To Slides Hydraulic Pump Motor" and "To Main Fuse Panel" then supposedly protected at 80amps?

My big question is can I eliminate both of the circuit breakers & jumper wire, and replace them with the single 80amp unit?
Like this:



The landing gear lead is still protected by the in-line 30amp blade style breaker.

As long as I can determine if the "orange to ???" and "black to ???" leads are protected farther down the line, I think that it will all work out as the exact same as the original amperage protection for each circuit. If the "Orange to ???" is not protected, I could add an in-line 30amp breaker like the one on the landing gear lead, although I think the gauge of the wire would not support a draw of 30 amps as it is wired now. That is why I think it is fused down the line somewhere. The "Black to ???" must be fused down the line as well, because its wire gauge would not support a wired direct from the battery circuit if subjected to a large amperage draw either.

Any electrical experts have any advice about this??? Thoughts and recommendations much appreciated.

Does anyone that has had the single HI-AMP circuit breaker upgrade done at the Factory Service Center or some other Authorized Dealership have a picture of how theirs was rewired from the original, stock configuration to rectify the annoying problem of the slides stopping several times while bringing them in?
 
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Old 09-19-2013, 01:57 AM   #2
DQDick
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On mine they just replaced the 60 with the 80 and left everything else alone. PM Jim Fischer "NCFischers" he's the electrician in the group.
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:52 AM   #3
Samiterry
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Ok......

#1. I'm going to assume that you installed the second battery in parallel with the original battery. Positive of #1 to positive of #2. Negative of #1 to Negative to #2.

#2. When you have two breakers of differing amp ratings wired in series, you DON'T add the two ratings together to come up with a total amp rating of the entire circuit.
When you do this, the circuit is protected by the amp value of the least rated breaker. So, to answer the "big question", NO.

#3. If you're going to assume the "Black to ???" is protected down stream with a breaker, that's Ok by me, if it were me, I would put it with the "Orange to ???" on the load side of the 30A breaker to make sure it is protected.

#4. You should put the "Jumper from Copper Post to Copper Post" that is currently on the load side of the 30A and put it on the line side of the 30A breaker on the same post as "4AWG from Battery Bank Positive post".

#5. The "To Landing Gear Motor" lead can be landed with the "4AWG from Battery Bank Positive post" and the "Jumper from Copper Post to Copper Post" on the line side of 30A breaker because it is protected by the "Auto-reset 30 amp in-line Circuit Breaker".

#6. The leads labeled "To Slides Hydraulic Pump Motor" and "To Main Fuse Panel" that are on the load side of the 50A appear to be correct.

Would like to have other electricians back me up on this or correct me. I'm more of an industrial electrician than residential or RV.
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Old 09-19-2013, 04:20 AM   #4
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On ours they just Paralleled two 40 Amp fuses. and we have not had any trouble since. I found it on this website 5 yrs. ago
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Old 09-19-2013, 04:43 AM   #5
BB_TX
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Are you sure you put the wires back the way they were? That just does not look right to me.
You show the battery to one side of breaker 1. The other side of breaker 1 jumpers to breaker 2. The other side of breaker 2 feeds both the pump and the main panel. That means all current to the slides and main panel are going thru both breakers. So the slides power is actually going thru the 30 amp breaker and the 50 amp breaker. It is probably the 30 amp breaker that is tripping.
In keeping with your number scheme, on mine the battery wire goes to one side of breaker 1 and jumpers to one side of breaker 2. The other side of breaker 2 (50 amp) goes only to the slide motor. The other side of breaker 1 goes to every thing else. Except the orange wire to the landing gear motor is connected to the jumper between the two breakers.
Take a good look at your wiring. I think maybe you need a wiring adjustment before you start changing everything.
Here is a picture of mine.
breaker wiring
.
Edit:
Looking at it more closely, I would suggest the following;
move the battery wire to the other side of circuit breaker 1 (where the "orange to ??? and jumper wire is located),
move the "to main fuse panel" wire to where you removed the battery wire,
leave all other wires intact.
That will give you breaker protection for all the wires except the "orange wire to ????". And the slide motor will be the only thing on the 50 amp breaker and it will no longer go thru the 30 amp breaker.
Not sure about that "orange wire to ????". I do not have one like that. But I would be inclinded to put it after the breaker also.
I believe the two brass colored studs on the breakers are intended to be the battery side of the breaker, and the silver colored the load side.
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Old 09-19-2013, 06:47 AM   #6
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I agree with samiterry, by putting the jumper from the 30 amp load side to the power side of the 50 amp, you have all of the power crossing the 30 amp, that is why it is tripping.

Take the jumper from the load side of the 30 amp and put it on the feed side of the 30, this will put the 50 amp back in play and give you 50 amps on the pump side.

Since the landing gear has it's own circuit breaker you can leave it where it is, it does not need the protection of either of the other two breakers.

I believe the black to ??? is the charge wire from the TV and the orange is the power to the breakaway switch. I would leave the black on the same post as the batt. and the orange on the load side of the 30 amp. That is the way mine is and what those two wires are for.

I suspect your problem arose when you installed the second battery and hooked the one cable from the 30 to the 50 amp breaker to the load rather than the power side.

I am surprised they used a white wire as power to the landing gear, white in these units is normally ground.

Not much change needed that I can see... good luck.
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Old 09-19-2013, 07:00 AM   #7
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You could use the 80 amp, but I would suggest you put the main panel on the same side as the batt, that is from the converter and powers the entire 12v system in the trailer, each circuit from there has it's own 15 amp fuse in the main panel. It should also provide the reverse polarity fuse protection in the converter.

I would move the one jumper wire as I suggested and you will be fine, if you were having no problem before then you won't now, adding the second battery just caused you to put one wire on the wrong post.


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Old 09-19-2013, 07:15 AM   #8
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Samiterry

Ok......

#1. I'm going to assume that you installed the second battery in parallel with the original battery. Positive of #1 to positive of #2. Negative of #1 to Negative to #2.
Yes, the battery bank is out-putting 12 volts DC.



Quote:
quote:Originally posted by BB_TX

Are you sure you put the wires back the way they were? That just does not look right to me.
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Irlpguy

.....adding the second battery just caused you to put one wire on the wrong post.
Yes, the only nut that I removed on the breakers was the nut that held on the 4 awg lead from the original battery and the "Black to ???" terminal.

I just love how the Keystone factory assembles things, this is starting to remind me of how screwed up the surround sound was "wired" when I took delivery! On that deal, they just randomly stuck speaker wires into any connection!
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Old 09-19-2013, 07:59 AM   #9
Irlpguy
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If these breakers were wired from the factory as your picture indicates then it is no wonder the 30 amp was tripping. The jumper wire from the 30 to the 50 must be on the same post as the battery or all the load is going through the 30. Put that jumper on the same post post as your battery and leave all the rest alone and you will likely find a world of difference.

I am not surprised as my surround sound never worked properly either until it was rewired.
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Old 09-19-2013, 09:57 AM   #10
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If the copper colored posts are supposed to be the BAT terminal, and the silver posts are supposed to be the AUX terminal from what I could find with a search, I think that I will move the lead from the battery bank to the post that has the jumper wire and just swap the "orange to ???" and the "black to ???" and see what happens. I will also try and trace those two leads and see for sure where they go and what they supply. Also, I think that I will just replace the 30 amp one because it may have been weakened from all of the tripping and overloading.

p.s.
Irlpguy, thanks for the hints as to what the black and orange leads may be for, it should make it a bit easier to trace them out.
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