Q's for those with double pane windows.

[KTManiac]

I had an interesting conversation with the sales manager at our local Montana dealer. I asked about the double pane window option on the 3605RL, and he said that some of the window opening styles were different than the single panes were. Specifically, the rear window when single pane, has an outward opening horizontal panel across the bottom, while in double pane configuration, it would have no opening capability. Also, he said that the emergency exit windows in the bedroom, and elswhere in the 5er, if they are double pane, when you open it the glass just falls out!
He said that they only order the dual pane option if the customer is insistant, and have only sold a handful of units with this option out of hundreds & hundreds of units sold.

Is he full of "you-know-what", and trying to sell the single pane unit on the lot, or is he telling it like it is? My BS detector is buzzing loudly in my head at this point.

Has anyone had any failures with the middle insulating airspace, allowing fogging and streaking between the panes of glass?

What is the weight penalty for dual pane on this 5er? One guy says ~1,000 lbs, another guy says ~350 lbs. I guess that I'll have to contact the factory to get a real answer, because I'm starting to not believe a word these guys are telling me.

Also, I think I read somewhere that the dual pane windows are not tinted. Is this so? ....and if so, why not?

TIA

[Glenn and Lorraine]

We don't have nor want dual pane but what he is saying is pretty much the truth BUT in the case of the bedroom window not opening is not entirely true. While Montana doesn't opt in the bedroom window to open, a number of MOCers have found that such a window is available as an after market window. This after market window is available from the same company that makes the windows for Montana. I know you will be getting responses about these windows from many other MOCers that have already done this change over.

[Mudchief]

We have owned 2 Montana's. One with and one without the double pane windows. I will not own another unit without them. They do not have much of a R rating. However they do make the unit quieter from outside noise and if you are camping in cold weather they do not sweat and you don't feel cold when sitting near them. They are tinted on our unit. We have 2 emergency windows in our unit and they don't fall out when you open them.

[JimF]

We have double pane, they add about 350 lbs and are not tinted as dark as the single pane. That being said, they do make it much quieter in the unit, also in cool damp weather they do not sweat at all. Our old unit had single pane and they sweat like crazy. The opening capability is really different, the dble pane have real small openings on the bedroom window in the slide, the emergency window does not have a screen, but it does not fall out when opened. Having had several units in the past with single pane I feel they are worth the money especially if you camp in a cold climate.

[Exnavydiver]

Tia, go with your BS detector, he is full of black tank juice. We have double panes on our Big Sky and love them. The rear big window has two small sliders that work very well for venting, the desk window is an escape hatch that has a slider and screen. The only one we had a problem with was the bedroom escape hatch, it didn't open other than to escape through, and IT DOES NOT FALL OUT! H. John Kohl and I remedied that situation by ordering what we call the "OZ MOD" since he was the first that we know of to post the same mod. We ordered the double pane escape slider from Kiren windows in Elkhart, they cost 164.95 I think and we had them in 3 days. The install couldn't be easier. Just check Oz's mods and there complete instructions. You don't have to remove the frame either, just two small screws and then slide the old one out and slide the new one on and replace the screws. Even the Keystone rep denied they had sliding double pane windows till I showed him the factory installed one over the desk... Dave

[H. John Kohl]

quote:Originally posted by KTManiac

I had an interesting conversation with the sales manager at our local Montana dealer. I asked about the double pane window option on the 3605RL, and he said that some of the window opening styles were different than the single panes were. He is correct. Specifically, the rear window when single pane, has an outward opening horizontal panel across the bottom, while in double pane configuration, it would have no opening capability. I do not have the rear picture window so I can not answer but our dinning area window has a horizontal section that opens but only half and it slides horizontally. Also, he said that the emergency exit windows in the bedroom, and elswhere in the 5er, if they are double pane, when you open it the glass just falls out! The glass does not fall out. It is hinged on the top. He is correct the current bedroom double pane do not have a screen or ability to stay open. Ozz (another member) found a maker "Kiron" that sells a replacement window that fits in the frame. This makes the replacement real easy.
He said that they only order the dual pane option if the customer is insistant, and have only sold a handful of units with this option out of hundreds & hundreds of units sold. I think he wants to sell singles on his lot.

Is he full of "you-know-what", and trying to sell the single pane unit on the lot, or is he telling it like it is? My BS detector is buzzing loudly in my head at this point.

Has anyone had any failures with the middle insulating airspace, allowing fogging and streaking between the panes of glass? I remember hearing of only one.

What is the weight penalty for dual pane on this 5er? One guy says ~1,000 lbs, another guy says ~350 lbs. Just the weight of the second glass so I would think closer to the 350 lbs. I guess that I'll have to contact the factory to get a real answer, because I'm starting to not believe a word these guys are telling me.

Also, I think I read somewhere that the dual pane windows are not tinted. Is this so? ....and if so, why not? I believe you will find they are not tinted as much.

TIA

Good questions. I suggest you find a dealer with the double pane windows so you know exactly what is being discussed.

[Delaine and Lindy]

We have owned 3 5th wheels with Dual pany windows and two without, and we made two mistakes. Dual pane windows do add weight that is the only negative. The 5er we have now has the frame less and makes the 5er look much sleeker. Dual pane is much quiter, want sweat, keeps the sun out and gives more privacy (Dark Tint). If I had have been you I would have ask to see one with Dual pane windows. I doubt he would have had one on the lot. That is the typical salesman sell whats on the lot, no matter what. As for weight I don't have a clue. The last 5er we owned had single pany which were reflective and were very cheap of coures they weren't dual pany and I let the salesman sell me what he had on the lot, which was dump on my part and want happen again. Don't let him sell you on the single pane windows. Have never had a problem with leaking, streaking or anything for that matter. Our windows below the large windows roll our and can be open when raining. Most owners who don't have them will tell you that you don't need them and people who have them want leave home without them. Its your choice and Good Luck on your decision. GBY....

[richfaa]

We don't have them. The salesman was no doubt trying to sell you what he had on the lot. The weight is as others have stated @ 300lbs or so. We have never had fogging or condensation on our single pane windows,proper ventilation eliminates that problem. They do little or nothing in terms of insulation..They do dampen noise. In terms of how WE use our 3400 we did not and would not purchase dual pane windows as there is little cost VS benefit for us. I would carefully compare the difference of both windows, Determine how you use your camper and purchase the window that will serve your needs.

[rames14]

While on the tour at the rally, we asked about the dual pane windows. The person that took us through said that "he" would not recommend them. He mentioned three items - the energy factor on the regular windows is .9 and for the dual pane is 1.1. The tint is not as dark on the dual pane. And, the windows do not open as much as the regular windows. Then we heard from people that had them - quieter, sweat less, can do some modificatios. I guess it will boil down to your personal preference. Some options, most everyone will agree on - others are individual preference. Good luck with "your" decision.

[ols1932]

I don't know what the salesman was trying to tell you; he probably was trying to sell what was on his lot because he's paying interest on whatever is on the lot. However, dual pane windows are a personal thing. I don't have them and can't see where the extra cost would have given me the comfort worth the money.

One of the things I like about this forum is that we can all state our likes and dislikes, our opinions and know that everyone else does not have to comply. One of the things that governs what we have, what we purchase, is our financial conditions. Some have it and some don't.

Orv

[Glenn and Lorraine]

I should explain my statement "We don't have nor want dual pane"
#1- As full timers we want as little extra weight as possible.
#2- We winter in Florida so the insulating factor does not enter into my decision as cold is not a factor. Even the cooling affect is more than satisfactory with our heavier tinted windows.
#3- We use the Fantastic Vents for ventilation whenever there is any possibility of condensation.
I am not against anyone getting dual pane. I just wanted to clarify my earlier statement.

[bsmeaton]

We ordered our last unit and had the option for dual pane, but chose to go without for no other reason than cost and we had seemed to survive OK on prior units without them. I watch the posts about them with interest, and can add the following:

I believe it was discovered they are not vacuum sealed windows like a residential unit (Blue's discovery), so there is no such thing as failure of the seal associated with the windows. They can fog inbetween the panes, but the fog clears like any single pane window because of venting slits at the bottom. At least this seemed to be the design in 2006.

It seems the most overwhelming advantage is noise reduction.

Always personal preference, but I think the tinting on our single pane windows is tooooo dark. They are almost opaque and I wonder why we have curtains. To me, they look nice from the outside, but they make the trailer too dark inside during the day. We had a 2003 with single pane windows and I don't believe they were near this dark.

[stiles watson]

I have owned a Big Sky without the double pane windows. Now the Big Sky I own has them. Of the two, I definitely prefer the double pane windows. It makes the unit amazingly quieter from outside noises. They are tinted. They do help in the winter. There is a panel that can be opened under the picture window although it works differently from the single pane version.

I think your BS buzzer is working very well. If it were me, I would look for another salesman. If he is misleading about this issue, what else is he misleading you about? All of us are guilty of making our decisions for whatever reason and then justifying them. I am saying that whatever decision you make will be a good one for the reasons you decide are valid.

[TLightning]

We do not have and do not want the double paned windows. Our travel schedule is to head north in the summer and south in the winter, and be in a mild climate all the time. For us, the extra weight and cost would not be worth it. Also, we like the very deep tint of the single pane.

[Imp]

We do have the dual pane windows and really like them. My understanding was that they only added 200 lbs. The tint isn't as dark and the glass will not fall out when opening them. We would probably get them again if and when we get a new rig.

[KTManiac]

Thanks for all of the replies and opinions!

I talked to the sales manager again this afternoon, after reading all of the replies here. I kind of quizzed him deeper about the dual pane option without letting on that I had more info about the subject...

...Well, he pretty much gave me all of the right answers. Maybe I just misunderstood him the first time around.

But he still insisted that the bedroom emergency exit would fall right off. I guess that is a moot point anyway, as I would replace it with a slider window from Kinro Windows in Elkhart, as mentioned in Ozz's mods.

I think for me, the dual pane is the way to go.

Thanks for the help!

****
Edited to correct the window manufacturers name to Kinro, www.kinro.com

[ols1932]

It seems to me that you could get dual-pane windows but leave the Emergency Exit window as single pane. The customer should be able to get what he/she wants.

Orv

[bsmeaton]

Here is an interesting twist - I've heard rumor that my SINGLE pane escape windows (desk and bedroom) will fall right off if pushed out beyond 90 degrees. I've never tried it, as I would have to pop the lower catch to release it.

[ols1932]

quote:Originally posted by bsmeaton

Here is an interesting twist - I've heard rumor that my SINGLE pane escape windows (desk and bedroom) will fall right off if pushed out beyond 90 degrees. I've never tried it, as I would have to pop the lower catch to release it.

Brad,
I don't believe that is a rumor. I believe that's the way it's supposed to work so that in the case of an emergency one could quickly exit.

Orv

[stiles watson]

If you must use the emergency escape, whether the window comes completely out is the least of your worries.