Yet ANOTHER problem - Montana Owners Club

MuddyPaws · 10-29-2006, 02:30 PM

I always plug the Montana into a 20 Amp plug when it's parked in front of our house. Been doing this for 2 years next month. Been plugging our previous 5 RV's in this way for 30+ years!

Today when we got home when I plugged it in it immediatly popped the (House system) circuit 20Amp breaker, it throws a big fat spark.

I turned the main & all other breakers in the Montana off and it STILL pops the circuit. I checked all the cords & connections and none of them seem to have any problems.

Anybody have an idea what would be drawing > 20 Amps with the main breaker off.

My first thought is that the converter is fried. Here's why I think that: Where we were it was plugged into a 50 Amp service. We were sitting there when something popped near the refer or stove. I didn't smell anything and the lights didn't flicker and everything seemed to be working.

The other thing would be a short somewhere before the breaker panel.

We've had more trouble in the last 3 months than the previous 5 years. The Arctic Fox we sold to our son has not had a single thing break in the last two years. Shoulda kept it!

noneck · 10-29-2006, 02:53 PM

Hi, MuddyPaws...this could be the converter but if the Main is like mine 2002 3255RL in disconnect, it should not pop the breaker as this would keep from powering it. I would try leaving the power cord unplugged from the RV and make sure it alone does not pop the breaker.
Chuck

MuddyPaws · 10-29-2006, 03:23 PM

Did that, it's not the cord.

MuddyPaws · 11-01-2006, 02:20 PM

OK, This thing has puzzled puzzled and vexed.

Everything in the breaker box looks normal. All the connectors were tight, no melted wires or scorched insulation. As an ex-electrician anything out of the ordinary would have jumped out at me. Actually it's a very nice arrangement and well done.

I pulled the breaker panel, unplugged the converter and plugged it into my extension cord. It works fine.

Everything in the breaker box looks normal. All the connectors were tight, no melted wires or insulation.

With the converter uplugged and all of the breakers in the off position I do not read a short on the main power coming into the box. With the breakers in the on position I do not read a short, nor do I read a short from the shore power connector, or anything along the way.

With all of the breakers in the off position if I plug in the shore power connector it pops the breaker. With everything off!. Every time.

What's hooked up to the main power, before the breaker panel? Doesn't seem that anything should be hooked up that way.

Keystone, can you give me any guidance? Has this happened before?
Is there a big capicator in the A/C unit that draws a huge current on plugging in? Even if the A/C breaker and the Main are off?

Like I said, I am puzzled puzzled and vexed.

Thanks,
MuddyPaws
AKA
Russ & Cheryl Causey
San Jose CA

boat391 · 11-01-2006, 02:29 PM

I am inclined to think your shore power cord or one of the connectors may be bad a direct short in any one of the plug changes if your useing them like 50 amp service to 30amp service or 30 to a 110 hook up someting is burned out and giving you a direct short a simple electric plug can short out and not look like it

noneck · 11-01-2006, 02:38 PM

Hi Russ, What about the Main before the converter? My rig has a double breaker (20 & 30) with post so if one trips it pulls the other open. Can you leave this off and will the house circuit breaker stay on? Another question...measuring "short" are you doing this to neutral? You should also make the same measurement to ground (chassis). I have mine fed from a dedicated 30amp GFCI so I also have to make sure there is no leakage current from neutral to ground.
Chuck

MuddyPaws · 11-01-2006, 04:28 PM

To answer your question:

If the ganged main in the Montana is in the off position it still blows the house circuit.

I've tested all of the cords & connectors and found no shorts.

I can plug the cords, in any combination, into my house and nothing happens. If I plug the Montana in, whether the main (and all other breakers) are on or off it blows the house circuit.

I have been plugging it in the way since the day we brought it home.

JH Sechelt · 11-01-2006, 05:09 PM

Hi Russ,

Sounds like to me the short is between the female plug on the outside of your Montana and the breaker box (main panel) inside the Montana. Can you do a ohm test from the ground terminal in the female plug on the outside of your Montana and the two hot terminals in the same plug. Would let you know if one of the two hot wires are shorting somewhere to the frame of the Montana. I'd check it to the neutral terminal too. Got to be a short there somewhere if it still blows the house breaker with all breakers turned off in the Montana.

J&D

Fjkiss · 11-01-2006, 10:44 PM

Hay Russ
ck the breaker in the house
it might be weak.
plug something ealse into it with a load.

MuddyPaws · 11-06-2006, 03:36 AM

The problem has been solved.

The plug I have been using for at least 18 years to plug in several different RV's was installed improperly. This particular plug was added by a previous owner and I believe the neutral and ground were switched. But it's hard to tell because he used GREEN wire for everything.

I need to buy a plug tester & go through the whole house I guess.

Thanks to all here who offered good advice.

muddypaws

MuddyPaws · 11-22-2006, 05:08 PM

An Update:

At least half of the plugs installed by the previous owner of our house has the hot & neutral reversed. I've heard from neighbors who knew the previous owner that he was an arogant computer engineer who knew 'everything'.

Doesn't seem to matter much to most appliances. Makes a big difference to a Montana, and prsumably any other RV with a split 20&30 amp system.

noneck · 11-24-2006, 12:20 PM

Wow, That sucks...I'm a computer Engineer...but never pretend to know anything! Good find and that is very dangerous swapping the Hot and Neutral! I have my outdoor circuit fed with a 30amp GFCI so it is much more sensitive. My first day with this Monty was a 2 week struggle of debug due to an issue where roof top A/C unit had rubbed through neutral wire to dryer housing causing an intermitten trip, worse during wet weather.
Chuck

MuddyPaws · 11-24-2006, 01:36 PM

Noneck,

I meant no insult to computer engineers! I've been one since the days of punched cards!

You wouldn't believe some of the things we've discovered in this house:

A plug that was tiled over when the original owner added a bathroom. stupid & lazy.

A floodlight mounted on the header over the garage door installed without a box of any sort. : unsafe & illegal

A flourscent lighting array hung off the end of the doorbell circuit, complete with wire crammed into a grove cut in the drywall (This one caught fire!) unsafe, illegal, lazy & stupid.

Wires for the pool lighting pulled through cast iron (plumbing) pipe, it's shorted out of course... stupid, illegal, and more costly than using the proper conduit.

A lighting circuit in a bathroom & sauna with green wire for every connection. defys logic.

Lighting an a bathroom with neutral/ground reversed. shocking!

We've been there 16 years and I'm still finding squirrelly crap this guy did.

Cheers,
muddypaws

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