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Old 03-16-2018, 08:34 AM   #1
rescue7
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5th wheel front high

Ok been thinking about this and have not found any answers online.

If you 5th wheel is nose high would that put more weight on tow vehicle since in my thought the truck is pushing the front of the trailer up. Thus more pressure on truck which would increase pin weight.
So am I crazy? Ideas
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Old 03-16-2018, 08:52 AM   #2
BB_TX
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Nose high would actually reduce the weight on the truck. Think about slowly tipping the trailer backward. The weight would be slowly shifted to the trailer axles until eventually all weight would be on the axles if you raised it high enough. Obviously you could not raise it that high without the rear hitting the ground, but you can visualize the principle.

However, running slightly nose high on the truck would have no real measurable shift in weight.
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Old 03-16-2018, 08:52 AM   #3
Phil P
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Hi

I just weighed a 5th wheel (not a Keystone) and Dodge 3500 SRW to determine why the trailer was steering the truck.

The weighing had nothing to do with your question but in the process of weighing the truck & trailer then the truck then the trailer I would guess in your configuration the weight transfer would be to the trailer axles.

I would further guess that it wouldn’t be a great deal of weight.

FYI the result of the above trailer problem was the king pin was located aft of the centerline of the rear axle of the truck due to the type of hitch being changed without moving the bed rails.

We corrected the towing problem by filling the potable water tank that is located in front of the axles and that corrected the problem. It just can’t be towed without water in the potable water tank.

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Old 03-16-2018, 09:33 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BB_TX View Post
Nose high would actually reduce the weight on the truck. Think about slowly tipping the trailer backward. The weight would be slowly shifted to the trailer axles until eventually all weight would be on the axles if you raised it high enough. Obviously you could not raise it that high without the rear hitting the ground, but you can visualize the principle.

However, running slightly nose high on the truck would have no real measurable shift in weight.
???????

If running nose high then more weight is transferred to the rear axle. This also shifts the pivot point rearward and puts more weight from the rear axle forward.

For example, if you could balance a trailer on the two axles, if you tried to lift the trailer tongue it would not get lighter as you lifted but heavier as the balance/pivot point would shift rearward. Think of a teeter totter.
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Old 03-16-2018, 11:14 AM   #5
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Would running nose high not put more pressure on the tires and cause them to wear faster.
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Old 03-16-2018, 12:19 PM   #6
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That was my thought if level less weight than if pushing up. I am about 2 inches high. already have hitch as low as it can go. Moving pin box up only other option, but dont want to ge to close to truck box.
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Old 03-16-2018, 12:32 PM   #7
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I have the same problem with nose high. New(er) truck is 1 1/2 inches higher at bed, plus in their infinite wisdom, GM raised the rails an inch. So I can't lower the hitch since I am already at around 6 inches to rails. I don't think they consider actual users when designing the trucks!
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Old 03-16-2018, 02:35 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by rescue7 View Post
That was my thought if level less weight than if pushing up........
As the front rises the center of gravity shifts toward the rear. As the COG shifts to the rear the weight likewise shifts toward the rear.
The hitch is not pushing up. It is just sitting there supporting what is sitting on it.
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Old 03-16-2018, 02:51 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prndl View Post
???????

If running nose high then more weight is transferred to the rear axle. This also shifts the pivot point rearward and puts more weight from the rear axle forward.

For example, if you could balance a trailer on the two axles, if you tried to lift the trailer tongue it would not get lighter as you lifted but heavier as the balance/pivot point would shift rearward. Think of a teeter totter.
^^
This!

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Old 03-16-2018, 02:51 PM   #10
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We're talking about a fulcrum. As more weight is transferred to the rear axle a greater proportion of the total weight is being born by the part forward of the rear axle.
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Old 03-16-2018, 06:30 PM   #11
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Mine is nose high - 1-2 inches. When we did weigh in, the rear axle had slightly higher weight than front ~350#. I took it as a sign to redistribute some of the "stuff".
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Old 03-16-2018, 10:04 PM   #12
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I really can't say about the weight on the truck axle but I certainly would think your rear trailer axle is going to be carrying more weight. Go to a scale and weight the truck rear axle and the put blocks under the trailer tires until your trailer is level and then recheck your trucks rear axle. That should resolve any questions.

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Old 03-17-2018, 11:55 AM   #13
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an alternative

Not sure why on one can get there head around this method of lowering the nose for a more level ride. It works ,cheap, removable, doesn't effect the ride loaded or unloaded, takes 2 wrenches and an hour of time.
If you have no options left to get the nose down just lower the truck. Mine like most trucks comes with a bit of a rake.......just remove part of the rake and you start lower to begin with, the compression to the over load springs does not change your just lower at the same rate of compression. these shackles have been used for years in the truck lower market.
I put these on to lower the truck 2 inches and raised the camper 1 inch with aluminum blocks under the springs that are sold as a raising method for trucks and I`m level. Some people tend to get excited about raising the camper with blocks at all cause they fear increased instability but the Correct Tract alignment system that comes on a lot of campers as a stock component raises your camper 2 inches with no ill effects. Of course that would work to but at a much greater cost.
The shackles $45.00, Blocks about $20.00, Correct Tract about $300.00 for 2 axles
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Old 03-18-2018, 01:29 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prndl View Post
???????

If running nose high then more weight is transferred to the rear axle. This also shifts the pivot point rearward and puts more weight from the rear axle forward.

For example, if you could balance a trailer on the two axles, if you tried to lift the trailer tongue it would not get lighter as you lifted but heavier as the balance/pivot point would shift rearward. Think of a teeter totter.

Hi

You are partially correct but only in reference to tandem axles.

Us the example of a single axle trailer with the axle mounted in the middle of the trailer. The higher you lift the front the lighter it gets until you reach a balance point or the rear of the trailer touches the ground.

A trailer with tandem axles the suspension does the same thing as a single axle trailer until you reach the limit of the bogie in between the 2 axles.

So the initial lift of the front of the trailer will cause a weight transfer to the trailer axles and the front would get lighter.

But again a lift of 2 or 3 inches will not reduce the weight at the front very much and may not even be evident using a truck scale.

Phil P
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