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10-14-2007, 03:50 PM
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#1
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Cedar Rapids
Posts: 4,876
M.O.C. #1944
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Towing: Automatic vs. Manual Transmission
I've always been of the opinion that automatic transmission tow vehicles were better to tow with than those with manual transmissions. I note that there are many who use vehicles with a manual transmission, especially Dodge owners. Any opinions and why?
Orv
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10-14-2007, 04:16 PM
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#2
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Texico
Posts: 1,917
M.O.C. #6150
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Orv, I preffer the manual transmission for several reasons.
1. It's the type of transmission I learned to drive with.
2. I have burnt up several automatics.
3. I have never had a problem with a manual transmission.
4. A clutch every 150,000 miles or so is cheaper than a new or rebuilt automatic.
It could be that I just don't understand how the automatics work. No, that's not it. I have a certificate from Rocky Mountain Power and Equipment ( Stewart & Stevenson ) that says I know the Allison truck transmissions inside out. They work on the same principle, just much bigger. It must be the electronics that they all incorporate now .
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10-14-2007, 04:22 PM
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#3
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: St. John
Posts: 591
M.O.C. #800
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Orv: I'd guess the reason a lot of Dodge owners went with the manual was because of the poor dependability of the early autos. With the newer 4 speed autos and the new 6 speed autos the reliability problem seems to be solved. My '05 has a 7 yr./70,000 mile warranty. Also with the '07 Dodge with the 6 speed manual the 6.7 engine is derated from 350/650 to 325/610 hp/torque.
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10-14-2007, 04:27 PM
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#4
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Marshfield
Posts: 158
M.O.C. #886
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When I was truck shopping several years ago I was told that Dodge didn't have an automatic transmission that would handle the torque of their diesel engines. I learned to drive on a stick and I still enjoy driving one, but I'm glad I have an automatic.
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10-14-2007, 05:15 PM
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#5
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Choctaw
Posts: 530
M.O.C. #6364
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One answer not to have one - stop and go traffic. I use my TV for more than pulling my Montana. My last Chevy truck was a standard and when coming back from Mexico my leg was about to give out with all the traffic!!!
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10-15-2007, 02:32 AM
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#6
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Fort Myers
Posts: 5,933
M.O.C. #4282
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Whats the difference in fuel mileage?
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10-15-2007, 02:55 AM
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#7
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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I learned to drive on a stick and am sure glad that we have automatics now. The stick is a big hassle to drive(for me) I never blew up a standard xmittion and never blew up a automatic xmittion. Had a stick 280Z for about 5 years and it was fun to drive..But I would never have a stick in a big truck..
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10-15-2007, 05:08 AM
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#8
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 1,144
M.O.C. #1846
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Dodge Auto transmission up until the 48RE was (is) infamous for failing. So if you have an earlier Dodge (03 and before) the choice for longitivity was the standard; also, until the 2006 model year 48RE you could not put an exhaust brake on the Dodge Auto (many did and the transmission would fail as well); 2006 has a beefier connecting rod (spline??) in the transmission and larger main computer module that will now handle the exhaust brake stresses and transmission programming requirements.
Given old experience -- at highway speeds there should be little if any difference in fuel economy between manual and auto transmissions given comparable gearing. In town (or slow speeds where the torque converter doesn't lock in), the automatic suffers. Also, when stopping, on the automatic the exhaust brake quits working at about 20 mph (at least on mine) where on a manual you could leave it engaged until even slower. The manual transmission also gives you much better control when using the exhaust brake on downhill grades or stopping vs. the automatic. There are people who report over 100K miles on a set of brake pads when using a stick-shift and exhaust brake; haven't seen anyone report much over 60K with an automatic!!
Now all that said -- when I was younger I enjoyed shifting and the feeling of being more in control of the 'power'; however, I now enjoy not having to shift; my legs are not as 'tough' as they used to be, and the automatics have just plain gotten better.
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10-15-2007, 07:25 AM
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#9
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lone Tree
Posts: 5,615
M.O.C. #6109
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At least in the early 90s, GM brochures had a footnote that recommended only automatic transmissions be used for towing. I, of course, had a manual transmission and it was replaced twice under warranty before I bought another truck with an automatic. In the 90's, the manual transmissions were junk, nothing like the old cast iron top loaders of before.
However - all has changed. I don't even know what a new manual transmission looks like anymore.
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10-15-2007, 10:42 AM
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#10
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: St Johns
Posts: 434
M.O.C. #7691
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The tow ratings I have seen "usually" give higher ratings for the auto. I just loved standards until my knees said enough. Auto is a given for me now. Do any/all the the diesel truck transmissions have the ability to retard shift points?
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10-15-2007, 03:20 PM
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#11
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Sulphur Springs
Posts: 748
M.O.C. #2220
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One of the major problems with the earlier automatics and diesels were that the manufacturers CONVERTED gas auto transmissions to work with diesels. As we all know that was a huge mistake. When Ford made the 6.0 and the 5 speed auto. The engine was designed and the specs were given to the transmission engineers and they designed that transmission for the engine. Better strategy than just converting an existing one. Chevy went with the Allison that has a proven record with diesel engines.
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10-16-2007, 04:28 AM
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#12
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 1,144
M.O.C. #1846
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Mac: I don't know the direct answer to your question above but on my Dodge the 'tow/haul' mode modifies the shift to make it a firmer, more solid shift. I've also noticed that the torque converter seems to lock in at a lower speed when in 'Tow/Haul' mode but I think that was / is a part of the pac brake (exhaust brake) programming change that was added when the Pac brake was installed. My boss has a 2500 Chev with Allison and he also thinks the tow/haul only 'hardens' the shift points, doesn't retard them any (we are interpretting the term 'retard' to mean delay to a higher speed).
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10-16-2007, 04:48 AM
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#13
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lone Tree
Posts: 5,615
M.O.C. #6109
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I believe shift point retarding is pretty standard over the last few years on pickups and even a lot of SUVs. My Jeep had it in 1989.
My Ford definately puts the shift RPM higher when in the tow mode. Because the Torqueshift is based on the Allison design (some say it actually is Allison), I imagine GM also moves the shift points to a higher RPM.
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10-17-2007, 10:09 AM
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#14
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
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I agree with the others about the early Dodge automatics not being able to handle the torque from the diesel very well. But, as also has been said, starting with the newest 4 speed auto, the 48RFE or something similar to that the autos seem to be very strong. Believe me, I researched this very carefully before writing the check for this Dodge. And I have to say this 6speed automatic is absolutely awesome. I read in one review where someone thought it shifted too hard so I've been watching ours closely. No hard shifts in this one. None. This is on excellent automatic. And the tow/haul is smarter than anything else I've ever driven, both gaining speed and slowing.
Like some others who have commented, I learned on a stick and have owned a number of them. But years ago the fun factor got outweighed in my mind by the hassle factor and it's been automatics ever since.
Skypilot, I guess Dodge is now very confident an exhaust brake will not harm the 68RFE automatic six speed transmission. Dodge puts an exhaust brake on all diesels now. At least with the automatic. And probably with the manual, too. And a sweet exhaust brake it is.
Dsprik, there may still be some accomplished stick shift drivers who can out mpg the newer automatics but the few head to head tests I've seen had the automatics getting the better mileage. It wasn't that long ago when the reverse was true.
This Dodge tow/haul works pretty much the same as the tow/haul on my Ford torqueshift except on slowing it seems to downshift sooner, meaning less time between downshifts, and smoother than my Ford did. And I was very pleased with the Ford so you can imagine how I feel about this Dodge.
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10-17-2007, 04:47 PM
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#15
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Olahoma City
Posts: 1,219
M.O.C. #6054
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When I am towing I would rather have a standard. I grew up driving a standard which we used to pull farm and oilfield trailers. I wouldn't use an automatic to pull anything. In the 1990's I had a terrible time with GM transmissions. In 2000 my ford would slam into gear as it shifted. I decided long ago I would rather have control of shifting. At least if the clutch goes out I can power shift.
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10-25-2007, 08:47 AM
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#16
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
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I just noticed the comment about whether tow/haul delays the shift. When I was researching a new truck purchase last Spring, I read in several places including some manufacturer sites that tow/haul does, in fact, delay the shift when appropriate. Sometimes it's to ensure the best rpm range and other times it's to avoid hunting on hills. But all three do delay the shifts atleast in some situations.
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