I will be disowned... - Page 2 - Montana Owners Club

Bill Frisbee · 12-22-2005, 03:25 PM

Our TV is a 2005 Dodge Ram 3500 Quad Cab, 4X4, Short Box, Laramie, SRW, 4-speed auto, Cummins 610 diesel, 3.73 gears. Towing capacity is 13,950lbs. GVWR is 9900lbs. Vehicle weight with driver (me), full load of fuel, and SuperGlide 16K hitch is 3490 kgs (7678 lbs). That leaves 2222 lbs for pin weight, my wife, and other cargo. We take great care to keep the weight of things in the Monty (3400RL ... which itself has a GVWR of 13,960 lbs) and the Dodge as low as is reasonable but I have no doubt that, at best, we are right at the limit of the stated capacity of the Dodge ... and probably overloaded to some degree. My basic philosophy re tow vehicles is "go big!"

Bill

2007dura · 12-22-2005, 03:37 PM

Here is a link to the Dodge truck site. Once you get to the site, click on the truck of your choice, and it will let you configure it, and then tell you the weights. http://www-5.dodge.com/vehsuite/TowingGuide.jsp

dsprik · 12-22-2005, 03:59 PM

Thanks, guys!

MIMF2 · 12-23-2005, 12:55 AM

Dave,

In October, as you may know, I towed the Challenger to the Reno Rally. My Silverado is the LLY 310 hp/605 ft/lb torque with the 5 speed Allison. Going thru the mountains at 65 mph with the cruise set and the tow/haul mode turned on, she never missed a stroke!

I can not begin to imagine how that same truck would act with the new 360 hp/650 6 speed Allison. That would have to be a rush!!

Just my 2 cents. But I think all three make good trucks. They are like our 5th wheels. Each brand has the little quirks.

jrgwdenner · 12-23-2005, 03:13 AM

Dave, I can't comment on the mechanics of the Dodge Ram diesel one ton, but from personal experience, ours pulled a loaded Monty through Alaska and Canada with no towing problems. Bad diesel created its own problem. The quiet diesel motor is a real plus. The Montana dealer staff in Anchorage told us that Dodge has the strongest box of any of the big three. I would encourage you to buy the larger truck of your choice as trying to limit your cargo is not fun if you don't have enough truck power. And don't forget, you want to be able to stop safely, too! Be sure to look into the towing package.

Dano · 12-23-2005, 04:39 AM

OK Dave, let me put my two cents in. I know a lot of folks use the 2500's, but my thought is wy limit your self to have to worry about pin weight and cargo, and maxing your truck. At a price point The 3500's dont cost much more and you can tow just about any thing you want as far as 5ers go. I dont want to sway you on any Perticular brand, DODGE! DODGE! DODGE! And thats my two cents.

MIMF2 · 12-23-2005, 09:05 AM

Dave,

Dano made a good point about the bed.

A little over a year ago when I was in the market, I was looking at a 2500HD. I was ready to buy it and then went out and looked at the 3500 SRW. I noticed immediately that it had 700lbs more cargo capacity. When the price was set for the 2500HD, I asked how much more for the 3500. Both were extended cabs with the same drive train except the 2500HD had the short bed. The salemen did some calculating and said, "I'll sell the 3500 for the same price as the 2500HD. Needless to say, you can see which one I brought home and I have not regretted it one bit. This way I don't have to worry too much about what I can hook up to or not.

From time to time in the performance in my duties at Lippert, I am asked to go acrossed the county to pick something up and bring it to our service bays. On several occasions, I have been hooked up to stuff over 16000lbs. Like a couple of Doubletree Mobile Suites, Heartlands and some toy haulers. It performed flawlessly.

When it comes time to change or replace the tires, I will make sure I have the highest load rated tires I can put on this truck.

Sweetfire · 12-23-2005, 09:47 AM

Specifications vary between 2X4, 4X4, Long Box and Short Box, Regular Cab, Extended Cab, and Crew Cab, with short box, 2X4, regular cab generally having the highest ratings.

Here's what I found out on the scales last night;

2005 Ford F350, PSD, Crew Cab, 4X4, SRW, long box, full tank of fuel, misc. gear (about 200lbs) and my fat butt;

Front Axle weight 5,000 lbs
Rear Axle weight 3,300 lbs
Total truck weight 8,300 lbs (funny how that works)

Ford Specs for my Truck:

Front GAWR 6,000 lbs
Rear GAWR 7,000 lbs
GVWR 11,500 lbs
Max GCWR 23,000 lbs (Truck, contents, cargo, trailer)

So pulling a 2005 R3295RK should be within specs if we leave the kichen sink at home. But as others have said the only way to be sure of what your pulling is to have it weighed equipted as it will be when you hit the road.

P.S. One thing no one was mentioned. If you were to have an accident and those nice folks at the insurance company could prove your truck and trailer were over GCWR would they pay up or tell you to take a hike?

sreigle · 12-23-2005, 10:15 AM

Dave, the Montanas have a curved nose with much better turning radius than most fifthwheels. I have had Montanas for five years and have used the slider twice with them. The new Montana coming next month will have an even better nose purportedly eliminating the need for a slider. I think the Megacab has an even shorter box than a "normal" shortbed so would not probably want to tow a Montana with a box that short. Also the F150 SuperCrew has a shorter box than what we normally consider a shortbox. But nobody's towing a Montana with a half ton truck anyhow, are they? I don't know if the SuperGlide would eliminate the problem with a box that short (megacab and supercrew) or not.

On the multiple GVWR's, same with the Fords. Mine has the 10,000 GVWR package (it's a 3/4 ton) and I think there's an option above that yet. So I'm not surprised Dodge has similar.

dsprik · 12-23-2005, 11:06 AM

Got back from a dealership today and there is going to be a challenge with my two trade ins that I want to use. But this is not an insurmountable problem. The salesman is someone I have known for many years. When I walked into the dealership, I had forgotten that he now worked there. I would trust this guy with my life. Actually, I think I have in the distant foggy past. He brought up a lease. He said that although he does make more money off from it, the payments would be lower (2 yr leases are actually lower pmts than 3 yr right now). Obviously, we would have to figure out how many miles we might put on, but we could roll any overage from the two vehicles (only one is really upside down) and by the end of the lease, it could be wiped out and the payment would still be lower than a conventional loan. Plus, they sometimes accelerate the lease and allow an opt out 6 months early if your mileage is starting to be a problem. He did not try to push this, just brought it up as an option.

I have always avoided a lease like the plague - the Black Plague and Bubonic Plague and the Bird Flu - but in just the right circumstance, it MIGHT be an option. 15,000 miles a year. As I have mentioned before, we do not plan on cavorting (right word?) around the US, on the move every couple days. We plan on taking advantage of monthly rates. This will be our daily driver, though, so input from you guys would be greatly appreciated.

Parrothead · 12-23-2005, 11:46 AM

Dave
Be careful - we have leased many vehicles because of our business and taxes. We never once were offered an early buy out or trade even though they use that as a selling point. And the dollars add up real quick when you go over the alloted miles. And we were also told we could probably buy the vehicle at the end of the lease for way below blue book. Not true, in fact it was much higher.
Happy trails.......................

dsprik · 12-23-2005, 12:34 PM

I, too, have heard of many horror stories. I am very skeptical - but not cynical. I will very carefully check it out. It is only an option. I am intrigued by some of the benefits that would not be available through other means of financing.

Montana Sky · 12-23-2005, 12:39 PM

Dave~dsprik
I have to also say I would try to stay away from the lease option at all cost. I have never seen them benefit anyone in the years I have known folks to lease a car. Usually the quote I hear is, "I will never lease anything again!"

Steve~sreigle,
Thank you for clarifying my previous post on the F150 Supercrew. You are correct there is no way that truck could tow a Montana fifth wheel. The Superglide is the only hitch on the market that would allow that truck to tow a fifth wheel and the hitch is only rated to 12,000lbs. Also went down today and looked at a Mega Cab, you are right the bed is super short. I do not think I would want to tow any fifth wheel with that rig- (MY OPINION).

richfaa · 12-23-2005, 12:48 PM

Parrothead has a valid point...However Helen and I have been leasing auto's for over 10 years//we each have a new car every two years.Honda will allow you a 6 month early out..With most leases you can buy the vehicle at any time (so we have been told) We DID lease our last Tv a 96 Chevy and bought it outright at the end of the lease..In our case we had lower monthly payment during the term of the lease and because of the good resale value of the Chevy truck the buy price was less than the market value at the time. You would have to be very carefull on the 15,000 miles a year..Example the buy price of my present lease car a 04 Honda Civic is stated on the lease..it can not change and the present value of a 2 year old Honda Civic today is MORE that my buy price. You do need to be vaery carefull if you go that route but it CAN work out...

dsprik · 12-23-2005, 02:10 PM

I need to explore all options, and I'm kind of like the President... I don't want to "take any options off the table". Even the "Nuclear Option". Not sure what that would be in my case... but it sure sounds good.

You know, if I win the Mega Lottery, this is all a mute point. But... should I tell you guys if I did. Maybe, I would continue to post my financing options to throw everyone off? Then go out and pay cash for everything. But I think we already had that post on winning the lottery by Glenn a while back.

Anyway, I sure don't have a perfect situation, but a workable one. I know everyone has his own opinion, but that's what I am looking for here. You guys have literally centuries of knowledge (the guys - not the women - they gain wisdom without aging) and I appreciate everyone trying to help me out. I know that I will make a choice that will meet with the approval of some and at the same time my decision could make others wince.

Thanks

2007dura · 12-23-2005, 02:40 PM

The Megacab bed is actually the same size as the bed on a Dodge Quad Cab. The size of the cab makes it look smaller. The bed is 76.3" on both Mega and Quad cabs. A Megacab is a long bed Quad Cab truck with the Megacab and a short bed. For comparison, a Chevy regular bed is 78.7" and a Ford is 82.4".

dsprik · 12-23-2005, 03:16 PM

I think it's too short and the payload is not good.

Montana Sky · 12-23-2005, 05:04 PM

The Ford has a 6.75' bed on the standard bed while the Chevy has a 6.5' bed. The biggest thing to look at when comparing the two is where does the axle fall in the bed. You want to measure the distance from the front of the bed to the center where the kingpin and hitch will ride. This will determine how much clearance you will have when making a turn. If memory serves me right the axle on the Chevy from front of bed to axle is 38" and the Ford is 34", reason this is important is your Montana is 96" wide. Divide that by 2 and that gives you 48". You cannot get 48" of coach into a 38" or 34" space, thus making the sliding hitch useful for 90 degree turns and jack knife moves. I know Keystone has redone the front cap so things will change from the example I stated on the new Montana.

richfaa · 12-24-2005, 04:16 AM

IF the way you use the TV warrants it I would agree with those who are saying //get as big as you can.With a long bed there is no worry about turning ratio.With a 1 ton dually there is less worry about overloading or pin weight. There are many who use the 3/4 ton and they do a fine job with it..usually with some modification, Air bags , etc. I got as big as we could get (less the diesel) We got the 12600 GVWR package, 23,500 GCWR and 16,100LBs fifth wheel tow..it says 9000 rear and 4550 Front(Hummmm). Anyhow more than enough for any Montana. Now this is a TV only..not a everyday drive//If it were our only drive we may have considered other options.. Our last Tv was a TV only and I had WORK cars for my everyday drive..I now use a Honda Civic. I know, I know//the cost of a second car . etc..That is NOT the point here..the point is TOWing a heavy RV... If you are fulltiming...another story.Now I know folks who Store a car in Flordia/ Arizona for use during the winter..

Parrothead · 12-24-2005, 04:44 AM

Another point on the long bed is a larger fuel tank whether diesel or gas. The article in Trailer Life on the new Mega Cab said they took room from the bed and put it in the cab. On the GMC a truck with long bed is only 10 inches longer than short bed and that 10 inches makes a lot of difference.
Happy trails.............................

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