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10-29-2013, 06:37 AM
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#1
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Montana Master
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: South Shore
Posts: 6,009
M.O.C. #7110
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Burnt Wiring
I noticed a smell last fall with the fireplace heater. We haven’t been using it at all but last weekend I turned it on and noticed a bad smell of what I thought was burnt wiring. I turned it back off and as it turned out I was correct. I removed the fireplace today to have a look at it and this is what I found.
OK, I know this is a common problem on here but it looks to me like I can use the other terminal and fix this myself. Has anyone else been able to do that? What do you think?
__________________
2011 GMC 4X4 dually CC, 6.6 Duramax with Allison Transmission. Formally 2001 Montana,2007 3400RL Montana, presently 2018 3401RS Alpine.
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10-29-2013, 06:56 AM
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#2
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Haysville
Posts: 4,261
M.O.C. #3085
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Due to high current draw, they may have separated the wires on the connector strip for a reason or the strip may just be what they had in stock to connect the wires ... who knows ... Radio Shack carries lotsa those terminal strips. There are alternate connectors I just don't know the correct names ... maybe one of our "sparkies" will chime in.
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10-29-2013, 06:59 AM
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#3
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Box Elder
Posts: 4,676
M.O.C. #12947
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Instead of risking another failed connection, I would look for a heavier connector, maybe even a couple of individual splice connectors that are insulated. Might as well fix it once and be done with it.
__________________
Bob & Becky
2012 3402RL
2012 Chevy 2500HD D/A CC 4WD
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10-29-2013, 07:15 AM
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#4
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location:
Posts: 724
M.O.C. #10948
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What could cause that kind of short with that type of connection?
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10-29-2013, 07:20 AM
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#5
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Montana Master
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: South Shore
Posts: 6,009
M.O.C. #7110
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Thanks for the replies but while you guys were posting the response I went ahead and made the repairs. It cleaned up pretty good and the connections are tight. I wonder if possibly one of the wires may have come loose causing it to heat up to begin with. I couldn't tell with the way it was burnt.
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10-29-2013, 07:41 AM
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#6
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Montana Master
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Murrieta
Posts: 5,816
M.O.C. #9257
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moutard... this is probably caused by a poor connection or bad wire. If the wires are not screwed down snug enough any kind of gap will cause arcing, which will eventually cause the burn in the pictures. Another cause is a bad wire that corrodes over time, which will also cause arcing. When the unit is in use and turned on and off, this wire probably heats up a little then cooled down. This expansion and shrinkage of a wire over time may cause things to come loose which is why it's important that the connection is screwed down well so that this does not cause an issue (poor manufacturing process?). It looks like Bill-n-Donna cleaned and tightened things up and if it's the same gauge wire this should be good to go, unless it's a design flaw and the incorrect gauge of wiring is suspect, then rohrmann's suggestion for heavier gauge stuff is in order.
I had basic studies of electronics and physics in college and learned about this phenonmenon with my hardware engineering major. Maybe this is why I had changed my career to software.
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10-29-2013, 08:16 AM
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#7
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Winfield
Posts: 7,327
M.O.C. #6846
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Loose connections = heat. Looks like a prime example and as mentioned, unfortunately this is a common problem on the fireplaces. It is a good idea to pull the fireplaces and check the connections every year or so depending on usage.
Bingo
__________________
Bingo and Cathy - Our adventures begin in the hills of WV. We are blessed by our 2014 3850FL Big Sky (previous 2011 3750FL and 2007 3400RL) that we pull with a 2007 Chevy Silverado Classic DRW CC dually.
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10-29-2013, 08:39 AM
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#8
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Montana Master
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Arroyo City
Posts: 3,110
M.O.C. #13395
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Bingo, how do I get the fireplace out?
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10-29-2013, 08:57 AM
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#9
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Winfield
Posts: 7,327
M.O.C. #6846
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10-29-2013, 09:50 AM
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#10
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Waterford
Posts: 3,693
M.O.C. #7500
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If you are going to leave it like that, I would first make sure the screws are real tight, and then fill in the holes with some epoxy (like JB Weld) to prevent them from ever loosening up. If it were mine, I would replace the terminal board with one I could locktite the screws in, or use good quality crimp on connectors (with shrink tubing) and do away with the terminal board altogether.
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10-29-2013, 10:33 AM
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#11
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Bella Vista
Posts: 472
M.O.C. #12223
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You can PM Ozz. He had a solution for this, as I remember.
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10-29-2013, 10:47 AM
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#12
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Chilliwack
Posts: 1,520
M.O.C. #12935
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by K0LCB
Bingo, how do I get the fireplace out?
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In all four corners there should be a screw that fastens into the frame opening, remove the four screws and slide the heater forward. My S&B is this way, my Monty and my BIL SOB were all fastened the same way.
Mine both are Dimplex and I have had no problem with either. But that seems to be a common problem in the RV's.
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10-29-2013, 12:01 PM
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#13
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
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The problem with that little strip, or connection is that unless you have a screwdriver that fits the screw-head perfectly, and the small screwdriver does not let you grip it enough to get a real tight connection. That and it is a very cheaply made connection. Just wire-nut them together.
I will see if I can find the slide show on removing my fireplace.
Here ya go:
https://picasaweb.google.com/Jimsue13/LivingRoomTVRemoval?authuser=0&feat=directlink
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10-29-2013, 01:03 PM
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#14
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Waterford
Posts: 3,693
M.O.C. #7500
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Ozz
The problem with that little strip, or connection is that unless you have a screwdriver that fits the screw-head perfectly, and the small screwdriver does not let you grip it enough to get a real tight connection. That and it is a very cheaply made connection. Just wire-nut them together.
I will see if I can find the slide show on removing my fireplace.
Here ya go:
https://picasaweb.google.com/Jimsue13/LivingRoomTVRemoval?authuser=0&feat=directlink
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Ozz, are the wires all copper? I couldn't tell. If not, wire nuts are not recommended.
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10-29-2013, 01:06 PM
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#15
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
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Yep, copper. Mine were, I can't imagine them using anything else.
If you are lucky, they are tinned with solder.
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10-29-2013, 02:49 PM
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#16
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Box Elder
Posts: 4,676
M.O.C. #12947
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When using any screw type connector with stranded wire, copper or aluminum (use No-Ox with aluminum), you should tighten the screw and wiggle the wire as you tighten, then wiggle again and, again tighten. If you just screw down on the wire without doing this, as the connection goes through the heat and cool cycles, the connection will become loose as the strands move around. If you use the above method, you will rarely have any problems, assuming the connector is rated for the amps that will be expected. Solid wire, as is in Romex, is does not need the wiggle to make screw connections. Also, the screws normally don't loosen from vibration, so it is not wise to use any thread locker due to the softer metal used in electrical connectors (you may need to take it apart some day). The connectors have to be a similar metal compared to copper so when the wire and connector naturally warm up with load, and then cool down when unloaded, they expand and shrink at the same rate.
__________________
Bob & Becky
2012 3402RL
2012 Chevy 2500HD D/A CC 4WD
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