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Old 10-29-2013, 06:37 AM   #1
Bill-N-Donna
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Burnt Wiring


I noticed a smell last fall with the fireplace heater. We haven’t been using it at all but last weekend I turned it on and noticed a bad smell of what I thought was burnt wiring. I turned it back off and as it turned out I was correct. I removed the fireplace today to have a look at it and this is what I found.





OK, I know this is a common problem on here but it looks to me like I can use the other terminal and fix this myself. Has anyone else been able to do that? What do you think?
 
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Old 10-29-2013, 06:56 AM   #2
dieselguy
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Due to high current draw, they may have separated the wires on the connector strip for a reason or the strip may just be what they had in stock to connect the wires ... who knows ... Radio Shack carries lotsa those terminal strips. There are alternate connectors I just don't know the correct names ... maybe one of our "sparkies" will chime in.
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Old 10-29-2013, 06:59 AM   #3
rohrmann
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Instead of risking another failed connection, I would look for a heavier connector, maybe even a couple of individual splice connectors that are insulated. Might as well fix it once and be done with it.
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Old 10-29-2013, 07:15 AM   #4
moutard2
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What could cause that kind of short with that type of connection?
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Old 10-29-2013, 07:20 AM   #5
Bill-N-Donna
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Thanks for the replies but while you guys were posting the response I went ahead and made the repairs. It cleaned up pretty good and the connections are tight. I wonder if possibly one of the wires may have come loose causing it to heat up to begin with. I couldn't tell with the way it was burnt.


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Old 10-29-2013, 07:41 AM   #6
Art-n-Marge
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moutard... this is probably caused by a poor connection or bad wire. If the wires are not screwed down snug enough any kind of gap will cause arcing, which will eventually cause the burn in the pictures. Another cause is a bad wire that corrodes over time, which will also cause arcing. When the unit is in use and turned on and off, this wire probably heats up a little then cooled down. This expansion and shrinkage of a wire over time may cause things to come loose which is why it's important that the connection is screwed down well so that this does not cause an issue (poor manufacturing process?). It looks like Bill-n-Donna cleaned and tightened things up and if it's the same gauge wire this should be good to go, unless it's a design flaw and the incorrect gauge of wiring is suspect, then rohrmann's suggestion for heavier gauge stuff is in order.

I had basic studies of electronics and physics in college and learned about this phenonmenon with my hardware engineering major. Maybe this is why I had changed my career to software.
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Old 10-29-2013, 08:16 AM   #7
bncinwv
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Loose connections = heat. Looks like a prime example and as mentioned, unfortunately this is a common problem on the fireplaces. It is a good idea to pull the fireplaces and check the connections every year or so depending on usage.
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Old 10-29-2013, 08:39 AM   #8
K0LCB
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Bingo, how do I get the fireplace out?
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Old 10-29-2013, 08:57 AM   #9
bncinwv
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Not really sure, I stated it was a good idea to check them, didn't say that I follow the good ideas all the time!
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Old 10-29-2013, 09:50 AM   #10
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If you are going to leave it like that, I would first make sure the screws are real tight, and then fill in the holes with some epoxy (like JB Weld) to prevent them from ever loosening up. If it were mine, I would replace the terminal board with one I could locktite the screws in, or use good quality crimp on connectors (with shrink tubing) and do away with the terminal board altogether.
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Old 10-29-2013, 10:33 AM   #11
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You can PM Ozz. He had a solution for this, as I remember.
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Old 10-29-2013, 10:47 AM   #12
Irlpguy
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by K0LCB

Bingo, how do I get the fireplace out?
In all four corners there should be a screw that fastens into the frame opening, remove the four screws and slide the heater forward. My S&B is this way, my Monty and my BIL SOB were all fastened the same way.

Mine both are Dimplex and I have had no problem with either. But that seems to be a common problem in the RV's.
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Old 10-29-2013, 12:01 PM   #13
Ozz
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The problem with that little strip, or connection is that unless you have a screwdriver that fits the screw-head perfectly, and the small screwdriver does not let you grip it enough to get a real tight connection. That and it is a very cheaply made connection. Just wire-nut them together.
I will see if I can find the slide show on removing my fireplace.

Here ya go:

https://picasaweb.google.com/Jimsue13/LivingRoomTVRemoval?authuser=0&feat=directlink
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Old 10-29-2013, 01:03 PM   #14
Tom S.
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Ozz

The problem with that little strip, or connection is that unless you have a screwdriver that fits the screw-head perfectly, and the small screwdriver does not let you grip it enough to get a real tight connection. That and it is a very cheaply made connection. Just wire-nut them together.
I will see if I can find the slide show on removing my fireplace.

Here ya go:

https://picasaweb.google.com/Jimsue13/LivingRoomTVRemoval?authuser=0&feat=directlink


Ozz, are the wires all copper? I couldn't tell. If not, wire nuts are not recommended.
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Old 10-29-2013, 01:06 PM   #15
Ozz
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Yep, copper. Mine were, I can't imagine them using anything else.
If you are lucky, they are tinned with solder.
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Old 10-29-2013, 02:49 PM   #16
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When using any screw type connector with stranded wire, copper or aluminum (use No-Ox with aluminum), you should tighten the screw and wiggle the wire as you tighten, then wiggle again and, again tighten. If you just screw down on the wire without doing this, as the connection goes through the heat and cool cycles, the connection will become loose as the strands move around. If you use the above method, you will rarely have any problems, assuming the connector is rated for the amps that will be expected. Solid wire, as is in Romex, is does not need the wiggle to make screw connections. Also, the screws normally don't loosen from vibration, so it is not wise to use any thread locker due to the softer metal used in electrical connectors (you may need to take it apart some day). The connectors have to be a similar metal compared to copper so when the wire and connector naturally warm up with load, and then cool down when unloaded, they expand and shrink at the same rate.
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