Year Round Living - Montana Owners Club

Montana_4223 · 08-29-2005, 08:37 PM

Howdy All!

I've been full time living in Alaska for a little over a year r now in a 24ft Jayco. I own a lot in South Central, about 120 miles from Anchorage near the bay/gulf so the weather is rather mild. I wintered over last year, and may find myself wintering over again this year with fuel prioces as they are.

I'm presently kicking the tires of a '05 3650RK that my not so close dealer has on their lot. Its a pretty well equipped unit (I'd rather have storage then a simulated fireplace but oh well), Only big item missing is the W/D prep, they want to add it but i'm somewhat concerned about it being able to be retrofitted., and then also having the water lines freezing since they would be exposed, after the fact. Also, I was wondering if anyone can report on how they fared in sub freezing weather in a unit with the 'arctic insulation' package. In the midst of January last winter it was down to 8 degrees a few nights and my fresh water tank started to solidify.

Thanks for any thoughts you might have.

Fordzilla · 08-29-2005, 10:39 PM

Welcome dchris, I have heard (on this forum) that the Artic Insulation pkg is not much for keeping things from freezing. I have it on mine but don't know that I will ever get to really test it, as I am not a fulltimer. I'm sure others with more experience will be along shortly and have more specific answers for you. But I don't think it will protect you as much as a person would be led to believe by the title. "ARTIC INSULATION PACKAGE"

dsprik · 08-30-2005, 05:30 AM

I am very interested in this topis, too, dchris. I am thinking of this Arctic Package also. That is the first time, though, that I had heard that there might be a problem with exposed line on the W/D?!? I really wanted that! Is going to be a problem guys and gals??? Dchris, you should get flooded (bad word to use right now) with responses on this. Good topic!

patodonn · 08-30-2005, 05:58 AM

Lots of input via a Search of the Forum. I recall last winter and the trials of Steve Rigel in Kansas City. BTW, I lived in Anchorage as a teen, and went to Ohio my Sr. year in H.S. Two winters out in the Anchorage weather every day as a newspaper delivery boy. After we left Anchorage, I thought I would literally freeze to death that next winter in Dayton, Ohio! Never been so cold in my life!

Check the Search function. IF I was buying a Monty for extended cold weather use, I would have the dealer drop the belly panels (before purchasing it)and take a good look at where water lines are routed. Also check the routing anc condition of the furnace ducting. I would certainly add insulation to (or "upgrade"the furnace ducting, and insulate all the water lines, maybe with heat tape. Special attention to the low point drain lines (three of then together) and the fresh water tank drain line, all of which extend below the belly compartment.

IMHO, the "Artic Package" is more of an catchy phrase than a significant winterizing upgrade. Anything is, however, better than nothing. You will want one (maybe two) supplemental electric space heaters, and plenty of good electrical power at your site.

Best,

Montana_4223 · 08-30-2005, 08:30 AM

Thanks for the input so far everyone. I did do some searching and did see someone who had dropped the underbelly and added heat tape, insulation, and whatnot. I guess that isnt so extreme afterall.

My primary concern was the dealer retrofitting the W/D prep into the unit so I could eltimatly install an LG WD3274RHD/WM3431HW into the cubby. I'm never a fan of retrofitting, espicially something pertaining to plumbing. I guess one benifit would be that the lines wouldnt be buried in the wall, so t I could do the heat tape retrofit aand the like. P

I did find a Yahoo Moontana group, but I find these web forums awkward to use compared to email. espicially reading topics over a 28.8 dial-up., but this seems to be a great resource. -Dave

bob n pam · 08-30-2005, 12:51 PM

Dave, we are one of the ones who dropped the underbelly, etc. If you want to chat, feel free to email. We spent two winters in the Chicago area with temps as low as 4 below.

Pam

jrgwdenner · 08-30-2005, 05:59 PM

dchris, I can't help you with the cold weather prep, but I wanted to tell you that you're living in a beautiful area. We visited Seward for a week the first part of August and the weather was great. We caught a few fish and had a great time.

The picture below might look familiar. It's the Seward Small Boat Harbor, taken about 7 a.m. I've since changed the picture which is now the Wrangell Mountains, I think.

sreigle · 09-01-2005, 09:30 AM

Welcome aboard, Dave. The Montana factory people will tell you the Montana is guaranteed only down to something like 28 degrees. We were successful in getting down to around 22 without freezing lines. With some work we did during this past winter we were able to get down to 5 degrees F without freezing. At 3 below we froze up anyhow. Our water tanks did not freeze. It was the low point drains and the lines laying on the frame that froze.

Keystone read what was happening to some of us and made some changes. The 2005 model you are looking at probably has these changes. If so, it may fare far better in the subfreezing weather than we did without modifications. The changes they made include moving the water lines in the belly up to right under the floor. That keeps them off the frame and puts them in the warmest part of the belly. The other change I'm aware of is to move the low point drains into a corner of the basement storage area, the main storage area. If your low point drains are not there but are underneath then you'll likely have the same problems we did. If they are underneath you'll see two lines hanging straight down, coming out of the belly. They are next to each other. There probably is another line hanging down but that's the drain for the fresh water tank.

Since our lines are laying on the frame in the bottom of the belly, before this winter I'm going to drop the belly pan and insulate those lines best I can.

padredw · 09-01-2005, 10:13 AM

Steve, am I seeing things, or is it really 25 F. there this afternoon? Hard to believe compared with what it was when we stayed there. Maybe you need that extra insulation.

padredw · 09-01-2005, 10:15 AM

While I was writing, the thermometer disappeared!

Garin1 · 09-02-2005, 06:09 AM

dchris,

I stayed in Maine for the winter of 2003 in a stock Couger. I don't know how cold it gets where you are but it reached -4 in Maine. First, i didn't have a belly pan on the Couger so I wrapped it in plastic sheeting to create an air buffer. After the first god snow there was no problem with the internal lines. I had external supply with a heated hydrant at the park to counter the permafrost. I also went to wal-mart and bought two lengths of heat trace wire for the outside supply hose. The only place I had any trouble was at the trailers water tap. I came back to the trailer one day to find that the insulation I had wrapped there had come loose. After thawing it out and re-attaching the insulation I had no more problems. I posted a photo of my old Couger on another heading "on the road" if you wish to see the conditions.

Oh,,,by the way,,, I have since upgraded to a 2005 model 3650rk.

prariepoodle · 09-02-2005, 04:22 PM

dchris, We are fulltimers and was in Elko Nevada last winter and we have the artic package. It got down to 8 below 0 and we did not freeze up. But we used floor heaters and also put one in the basement, also ran the heater most of the time. OH we also had the water line wraped with a heat tape and the bottom of the RV closed in with insulation...

sreigle · 09-03-2005, 08:11 AM

Linda, how did you enclose the bottom and what material did you use? We're considering doing that this winter. Thanks.

Montana_4391 · 09-19-2005, 01:51 PM

Hi dchris, nice to see another Alaskan on the forum!

I live in Fairbanks and while it gets considerably colder than you "southerners" I have often wondered about the Arctic Insulation Package myself. I am not planning on wintering in a Montana up here - no insulation package could allow for that - but with this Katrina thing going on I wondered to myself just how cold it would be before I just couldn't live in a Montana under emergency situations even if I didn't use water. If I just used the fiver for shelter and electricity at what temp would I no longer be able to stay in it.

As for your question, I would skirt the bottom of your fiver just as a precaution to keep the water lines from freezing. You can do so simply with plywood and styrofoam insulation (you don't have to insulate as heavy as we up here in the Frozen North). That insulation plus the heat from your heat tapes should do you for all but the coldest temps - for that you may want to consider a small electric heater just to add enough heat to keep things liquid (be careful you don't overheat and melt something!)

I know some folks winter in their fifth wheels and travel trailers in Colorado using skirting and do fine.

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