A black tank is not that strong

[richfaa]

I have talked with the manufacturer of the tanks. That is why we will have the tank replaced in Goshen by a installer that the tank manufacturer uses and to their specifications. We shall see. I have never had a leak in any other tank?????

[mojavemike]

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

We now have a leak in our 3rd black tank. We never travel with liquid in any tank. We never let the tanks fill up. We dump the black and galley tanks every couple of days... We have a leak, high up on 3rd black tank. They are made of ABS material and the company that makes them will tell you that the installation process is a fault. They should be and the company recommends they be strapped up. Keystone chooses not to. Steve our last replacement bill was 729.00 of which cost me 50.00 under our extended warranty. We will have this one replaced in Goshen under the supervision of the Tank manufacturer. properly I hope.

Is that recommended by Keystone not to travel with water in your tanks? I always had at least 1/4 tank of water for on the road needs in my SOB and always dumped my black before I hit the road and put a little water in it to slosh around to clean the tank walls while traveling. Doesn't sound like a fun job to change a tank.

[sreigle]

I normally run with the fresh water tank 2/3 full and have not had a problem with that tank. When on the road for a few days we'll often accumulate fluids in the gray and black tanks. We've not had any problems because of that that I know of. We had the recent black tank problem but that was my fault and we were stationary at the time. I don't normally run with really full tanks, though.

[SlickWillie]

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

I have talked with the manufacturer of the tanks. That is why we will have the tank replaced in Goshen by a installer that the tank manufacturer uses and to their specifications. We shall see. I have never had a leak in any other tank?????

Rich, wonder if the connections are too rigid on that tank? Someone on here (Orv maybe)had a problem with tank failure, and seems they went back with rubber couplings on the lines to and from the tank. I could see that being a problem, especially on really short pipe runs, with no room to flex.

[Mudchief]

Will, you may be on to something being many break in that spot.

[Exnavydiver]

Steve, I know EXACTLY how you feel, but one point I would like to make about the insulation situation. When my tank blew I dropped the belly pans and hosed the that whole area out with water and clorox. The insulation being Mylar and plastic bubble wrap did not absorb any of the effluent. It all hosed off very nicely, I sun dried it all then re-installed it clean. They shouldn't have had to use "house" insulation. But if you are in snow and cold and trying to get it all done while exposed to the weather I can see how that happened.. You are right about there being no support under the tanks though. Next time I get REAL bored I will drop the belly and install straps to support the black and gray tanks... Dave

[anker]

If I may put in my 2 cents worth in this same vein, this just happened to me a week ago. My sister-in-law and her husband came to visit and while they were here she used the bathroom. I have a Thetford stool with foot pedals and she must have let the pedals up very softly. Anyway the water didn't shut off and the flush valve stayed open. About 20 minutes later a
neighbor is pounding on my door telling me I have black water running out the bottom of my trailer. Long story shortened, the tank didn't blow out. The water pushed the seal around the vent stack up and was running out there. Took awhile to get rid of the water and the smell, but pretty well over it now. Later my wife said, "Oh yeah, I knew it does that."!!!! Point of the story is to be sure to keep an eye on your toilet as it is a water source too for the black tank

[Waynem]

Well, I use the 1 or 2 minute count method. I drain, then run the back flush, then close the valve and count, 1001, 1002, 1003, etc., until I reach either 1060 or 1120, then I pull the valve. I figure if I stop counting I better be near the valve.

I thing I taught the exnavydiver the fill the bowl method. If he's teachable! I'll stick my head in and ask Earlene to fill the bowl twice and flush it. Since I'm the guy watching "crap" flow, I watch the clear plastic elbow and when a full bowl is flushed you would be surprised at the discoloration fo the water that comes out. I'm sure there probably is more in there, but it's the best i can do. It's a crappy job, but us guys have to do it. Ever since Earlene got wet when she took the cap off the waste valve on our fist trip (I had forgotten to close the gray water) she will not get any where near that drain outlet.

After draining and flushing, I will put 1120 count back into the tank. Then I add the disinfectant, and 1 cap full of Calgon. It lubricates everything. Makes things slide easier.

I run with the fresh water 1/3 full and add as needed when I get to a CG. Typically my gray is empty, and the black may have soe use.

[Mrs. CountryGuy]

Wayne

We call those "power flushes" and have been doing them for years, too many years to remember or count.

Yep, they tend to flush out some stuff.

Calgon (laundry not "take me away" bath beads) is GREAT stuff! We use in ALL three tanks when we run, couple of gallons of water, some Calgon, don't need soap in gray or galley. Tank washing thanks to our lovely smooth roads. Yepper, lemonade from lemons, those bumpy roads have to be good for something, right??

[DonandJudy_12]

The fresh water tank is not constucted of the same material as the sewage tanks- The fresh water tank is of thicker material and sits on a solid wood floor- They do not flex to the extent the sewage tanks do- If we must ever replace sewage tanks, we will be sure to use the rubber sleeves as Orv did- Don

[eastridges]

Does this possibly suggest that you should never let your black tank fill up? Take it real slow from your campsite without sewer hookups with a partially or full black tank to reduce stress? Never travel the road with say more than a little in your black tank? I have shut the valve also when flushing the tank but don't know how that would create anymore stress than letting it fill naturally. Don't know but I will change my way of doing things while at camp and when on my way to new adventures.

[Delaine and Lindy]

We only travel with water in the John enough to flush. The main reason I travel with very little water is the weight. Doesn't make since to haul 100 gals of fresh water?

But then I see Motor Homes come into a park with a load of water and have to dump. Its possible that the MH have better tanks?? And for back flushing I back flush every time I dump the black tank. And I only use Calgon no chemical. And normaly only have to back flush 1 time possible 2 and I never monitor the tank gages. And when parked we leave the Grey tank open. For those with W/D its important to leave the Grey tank open if thats were you Washer drains into. GBY....

[Longwell]

This type of discussion has great value for those of us less experienced with the waste water systems!!!
Thanks for sharing what you do, and how, so we can possibly avoid the same type of problems (when alert )
Larry

[Art-n-Marge]

My opinion is that when travelling, the tanks should be as empty as possible, except maybe the fresh water tank (maybe 5 gallons for travel stop usage). I will use 1 to 3 gallons of water in the black tank because the deodorant solution needs it to help clean the black tank while sloshing around during driving. The fresh water can be used for travel breaks when no other facilities are around and will end up in the black or gray tanks but we're still talking no more than 50 lbs of water and residue. I also must remember that there is 10 gallons in the hot water tank but this extra 85lbs of water doesn't slosh around too much since this tank is full.

The weight of water is a lot of weight to tow around so I try and minimize this as much as possible. I can only imagine it also causes extra stress for how they are supported and I wouldn't want the RV's tanks to combat the extra weight of the bouncing trailer when hitting bumps, railroad tracks, etc.

I also think that any more water that what I mentioned and not being completely full would slosh so bad to affect the RV's ride. This is only my opinion on things and works for our RV travels. If we start boondocking more, then I expect to have fuller tanks until I can get things dumped even if I had a portable drain tank.

I'm with Longwell and I shall continue to listen to the advice and stories of others to help me out and not just about black water tanks.

[richfaa]

The failures in our black tank were in completely different places and not anywhere near the seal.

[SlickWillie]

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

The failures in our black tank were in completely different places and not anywhere near the seal.

What is the seal?

[richfaa]

On the 06 3400 right were the large pipe goes into the black tank. Mine is in the front compartment entry door side. There is a white ring around the pipe..remove that and the seal is under there. It is the inlet to the black tank. It may be different on other models or years but my guess is that there is a seal at the inlet of the black tank. If it is leaking at the seal it will usually be wet..However if it leaking below the seal you will not be able to see it. Mine is now leaking someehere at the top and we can not see where the leak is. The previous leaks were at the seams of the tank.

[Mudchief]

Art, if you ever break down like I have (with children on board) and towed to a dealers lot waiting for Monday morning you will want the following. (1) all holding tanks empty (2) fresh water tank full. I also can not tell any difference towing with the tank full or empty. The MPG don't change however it does take some of the weight off my pin.

[SlickWillie]

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

On the 06 3400 right were the large pipe goes into the black tank. Mine is in the front compartment entry door side. There is a white ring around the pipe..remove that and the seal is under there. It is the inlet to the black tank. It may be different on other models or years but my guess is that there is a seal at the inlet of the black tank. If it is leaking at the seal it will usually be wet..However if it leaking below the seal you will not be able to see it. Mine is now leaking someehere at the top and we can not see where the leak is. The previous leaks were at the seams of the tank.

Would you be talking about a rubber grommet that the pipe goes in through? Like this? I've had the bottom membrane off the RV, but have never even looked to see how ours goes in the tank. I know the outlet pipe is either glued or welded, probably glued. I intend to do some work under there this spring; I'll see how ours is connected then.

[Art-n-Marge]

Excellent point, Mudchief, but in that case we look for a motel. Fortunately we travel during the day and most dealers are open 7 days per week and would be able to drop off the rig (happened to us only once), then we drive where we want in the TV. We plan our breakdowns for midweek .... jes' kiddin'

With my luck, if I drove around with a full tanks they would be the reason for the breakdown that forced me to the dealer. But I really appreciate the heads-up for when we start bring the grandkids with us and might have to rethink our traveling procedures (maybe up the fresh water to 15 gallons, heh-heh).

Meanwhile back to the topic, however the plumbing gets attached to the tank, it is critical that the fittings are supported, sealed, glued, welded properly to withstand the pressures of full tanks and travel. The tanks are thin to save weight and because of this prone to cracking and leaking and improper installation does not help. I'm afraid I will have to stick to my procedure of traveling as empty as I can to relieve as much pressure as possible.

May all our travels be only happy ones.