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Old 08-16-2007, 04:39 PM   #1
mtpocket2
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Beware 07 Dodge Cummins

Had truck 5000 miles. Been to the dealer at 2500 for a check engine light. Getting ready to leave this weekend for a little vacation (25 Wedding Anniversary)and coming home from work check engine light comes on again. Told dealer if he cannot work on it tomorrow I am picking it up anyway and if it quits they can come get it on the side of the road. Man this is frustrating. A friend at another dealer said the new cummins have been coming back alot. There is a rapid response out on it for reprogramming. Seems all the pollution junk on it is getting clogged up. If the rapid response is not performed you stand a good chance of being stranded due to clogged egr and converter. I drive the truck at 70 mph for two hours every day. It does not sit and idle. I am really suprised cummins would put their name on something like this. Where is the R&D? I want my 04 back. That was a good truck. Never back to the dealer in 65000 miles. A couple adult beverages and I am still mad. Tomorrow will be better. Has to be.
 
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Old 08-16-2007, 04:52 PM   #2
Okie Guy
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Thanks for the heads up!
I am supposed to sign the papers on a 2006 Friday. Has anyone had problems like this with a 2006?
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Old 08-16-2007, 04:58 PM   #3
Hemlockusa
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mtpocket2 - This is a first, Steve Reigle has had his 6.7 for almost 4 months with not problems like that and everything I think is going smooth... There was a post last week on a Dugamax with these exhaust problems also. I think we are just starting to see the problems that are going to start with this new exhaust requirements... and it will effect every brand, There is nothing wrong with the cummins, duramax or powerstroke engines that a HACKSAW would not take care of... Everyone knew for 2007/2008 they were buying into a first year untested exhaust required system and there are a lot of folk's out there that will be very unhappy I am afraid. But it isn't the Engine Manufacture's fault... WE ALLOWED THESE LAWS AND REQUIREMENTS TO BE PASSED... I think by the third year out, they will have it figured out.
Very Sorry for your troubles.. John
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Old 08-16-2007, 05:00 PM   #4
Hemlockusa
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Okie Guy, Your 2006 is fine,,, No exhaust requirements on that baby, and it's a kick BUTT TV, you will love it... You should get around 11.6 to 12.6 towing at 70 with AC on..
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Old 08-16-2007, 06:20 PM   #5
Countryfolks
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Hemlockusa

Okie Guy, Your 2006 is fine,,, No exhaust requirements on that baby, and it's a kick BUTT TV, you will love it... You should get around 11.6 to 12.6 towing at 70 with AC on..
Dreamer!

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Old 08-17-2007, 01:22 AM   #6
mtpocket2
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The 06 should be the same motor my 04.5 had. It's a very good motor. I was getting fuel numbers like hemlockusa. With the very cold A/C on unlike the new truck which has a poor A/C. I wanted an early 07 with the old motor but there were none within a 1200 mile radius. I have a hard time with the untested exhaust system. When you pay what we pay for these trucks that should include testing by the manufacturer not the buyer. I'm still mad so maybe I will lighten up on them. Then again maybe not.
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Old 08-17-2007, 03:45 AM   #7
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Actually, we've had our Dodge just two months and 11 days and have 11,000 miles on it. We're very pleased with the truck, especially how it tows our Montana.

The fix to the problem mentioned, the one that plugs the dpf, was supposed to be applied by dealers before the truck is sold. The original "fix" came out in mid-May. A revision to that fix came out on June 12. The first fix was applied to ours at the time we picked up the truck. But the other came out after our delivery (6/6 delivery). We had that one applied also.

Mileage is pretty good but hopefully will get even better once the truck gets another 20k miles or so on it. Our Montana is 14,620 pounds (weight impacts mileage). We're getting, most of the time, anywhere from 10.6 to 11.6 towing at 62 to 65 mph. In the first three thousand miles we were getting around 9.5 to 11. It has been improving as the truck accumulates mileage. I don't know if it will get in the 12 and 12 plus range. That remains to be seen.

I've been very pleased with solo mileage. We took a trip (without Montana) from Independence, MO (KC) to Sioux Falls, SD. 374 miles one way. Going up we got 19.3 with cruise on 70 mph. Coming back we were pushing a pretty strong headwind and had cruise on 75 mph about half the way and 70 the rest. We got 17.8 on that leg. On a trip to see my Mom, I had a relatively flat stretch of road for ten miles or so. I put the cruise on 70 and reset the computer. At the ten mile mark it read 23.0 mpg. Keep in mind that is no hills, no slowing down, no speeding up. Just flat road at 70 mph. I will never see that mileage for a trip.

The computer checks out to be within 1/10 mpg, checked over 3 tanks. The computer read 1/10 higher than my manual calculations.

A/C. I agree the AC is not as strong as on my Ford. I attribute part of that to the huge cavity to cool in the Mega Cab. But it should have been designed to handle that load. It does fine as far as keeping us cool but we run it on recirc a lot. I'm not used to using recirc other than to avoid pulling in smoke or dust but at least we do stay cool.

Mtpockets, the following works for the '07.5 and I think it will work back several model years, at least for those with digital odometer. If you want to see what OBD II code is set by that check engine light --
1. Put the trip odometer on trip (not required in all years)
2. Put the key in Off (the one just before Run)
3. Turn the key to Run three times in five seconds.
The odometer will show you a series of trouble codes stored in the trip computer. (I did this back before that flash I had done). Have something handy to record the codes on. It will show the first for a few seconds, then the second, etc. When done it shows "done." If there are no trouble codes stored it will just show a series of dashes. Give it a few seconds to show the codes.

Do a google search on "obdii codes" and you'll find several sources. Or email me and I'll send you what I have. It seems some have more info than others so I keep several at hand, just in case.

I am very, very pleased with both the 6.7 and the 68RFE six-speed automatic. This truck will burn the tires from a dead start and has great acceleration from any speed. It amazes me how it tows this Montana. The steepest hill we've pulled is an 8% hill on a two-lane highway in Pennsylvania. I'm not sure how long the hill was but it was at least a mile. We started at the bottom of the hill at 55 mph and when we crested the hill we were at 50 mph (on cruise set at 55). RPM was at 2200 and engine temperature never climbed above 205 to 210. The engine just never seems to be working hard. 70 mph is 1625 rpm in top gear. The builtin exhaust brake combined with tow/haul does a great job of holding down speed on the downhills. There have been times I have to give it throttle because we're slowing too much.

The transmission is very quick to know when to shift, both accelerating and decelerating, both solo and towing. It is butter smooth shifting when solo. It is firmer when in tow/haul, as you'd expect. When in tow/haul with exhaust brake on the shifts are firm enough when decelerating to be like stabbing the brakes. It is not harsh, just sudden. So, in town on flat roads sometimes I'll turn off the tow/haul until we start out of town. It doesn't bother me but my passenger doesn't like it. Taking it out of tow/haul makes for a more pleasant experience.

All three brands now use variable geometry turbos to control boost and to provide exhaust braking. But Cummins did it differently and I expect their turbos to be less troublesome. The vanes do not move in this turbo, like in the others. Rather, there is a sliding collar that moves back and forth to control exhaust flow and boost. Don't ask me exactly how it works. I know only what I've read.

The diesel tank is 34 gallons even though the Mega Cab is a shortbed.

Overall, I'm very pleased with this Dodge. I miss some of the things my Ford had, like the reverse sensors and the keypad on the door. Our Ford was plusher. But the Dodge is also very nice and I'm very pleased with it. I would buy another without hesitation.

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Old 08-17-2007, 04:43 AM   #8
mtpocket2
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Thanks Steve. I will try the code trick. I think I will probably get a chance sooner than I would like. I agree with you about the tranny. Smooth and tows great. The truck tows our 3400 without effort. Exhaust brake works well. The nav system with sirius is a nice touch also. I was happy with everything until I started to have these problems. If you had asked me at 2500 miles it would have glowing reviews. I am sure nothing was done to our truck when we bought it except the dealer scraping a dualie fender when they attempted to wash it. I should have known it was going to be a rough ride and just kept the old truck.

If you google Turbo Diesel Register there are some interesting posts in there on the 6.7's. There is one thread about a guy not putting oil in after an oil change and the pictures of the rebuild. Good pics of the internals.
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Old 08-17-2007, 05:20 AM   #9
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Ford site used to always say "Drive em like you stole em"; it is especially true on the newer ones. From my contact with the local Dodge Dealer; driving them as the daily driver is killing the DPF (plugging them up) because the exhaust isn't hot enough for long enough. Even driving at 70, at 16 or 1700 RPM doesn't do it unless under a load. This morning I heard the sales man tell a prospect to drive it in 3rd or 4th gear (2200 RPM was mentioned) for at least 30 minutes once a week if he wasn't towing. Don't know where he got that from, been gone for a while and dropped my truck off today for 15K service. If I remember to ask, I'll try to find out where that came from. (Just remembered a problem I had with my 04; was having injector problems; STAR gave dealer instructions to have me drive with OD off, 60 to 65 MPH or better, for several hundred miles. So wife and I took a trip to KC, driving on interstate at 70 (very high RPM) all the way. Dealer wasn't happy with me for high RPM but it cleared up the problems. May be same type deal????)

Have an old neighbor (he moved last year and now hauls trailers part-time for a manufacturer) who uses a 2007.5 (2008) 3500 quadcab; loves it. Like Steve, he has had no problems at all with it but he works it hard every week.
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Old 08-17-2007, 05:34 AM   #10
sreigle
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Hmmm, I thought the forced regeneration process would clear the DPF if normal driving didn't do it. So far mine has been fine. 2200 rpm on this Dodge (3.73 rear axle) is well over 80 mph in sixth gear (80 is 2000 rpm), so if it takes 2200 rpm to keep the dpf clear then mine would always be plugged. I'm not anxious to run a lower gear to get higher rpm and so far have not had to do that. Hopefully it won't come to that. We have 11,000 on this one now and it's not plugged the DPF so I guess we're ok.

We're hearing all kinds of rumors about the DPF so it's hard to separate fact from fiction, at least for me. So my ears perk up when I hear anything at all. If you hear a source, please post or let me know.

My dealer did tell me to use the exhaust brake occasionally even when not towing as that would knock off any carbon trying to build up in the turbo. I guess the slider used for the exhaust brake must knock it off or maybe it's the compression. I really don't know other than this is what he said.

Mtpocket2, I also monitor the Cummins Diesel Forum. That's where I found out about the TSB for the DPF having an update on 6/12.

My dealer did tell me that if idling for an "extended period" to activate the fast idle (1100 rpm). He told me how to activate that. Before I tell you how to do that -- I'm also hearing on the forums that while the Dodge 5.9 and 6.7 both have fast idle capability, it has to be activated by the dealer so the procedure to turn on fast idle will work. So if this does not work for you, then check with your dealer.

First, I think this works only for the 6.7. I think there's a different procedure for the 5.9. The procedure is to first turn on the cruise so the cruise light is lit. Then push the Resume button followed by the Set button (no need to hold resume, just push and let go). It has to be in park (maybe neutral, too) and foot off the brake. Foot on the brake turns off the fast idle.

Another "key trick" tests the gauges and lights on the dash. I'm trying to remember the procedure so I hope this is right. Push and hold the trip odometer clear button while you turn the key to Run. Continue holding the button for five seconds until the testing starts. It will be obvious. It's really cool to watch but I'm not sure what it is telling me. I hope that's the right procedure. I haven't done it in awhile. Robbie Simons, is this the procedure I told you?
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Old 08-17-2007, 06:40 AM   #11
mtpocket2
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I should clarify the first light was for debris in the turbo. Nothing emissions related. The dealer couldnt tell me what it was and if it was intake or exhaust. They opened up the turbo and cleaned it out. After clearing the code it didnt come back unless this is the same thing again. It's at the dealer now so I cannot try to pull the code. I do use the exhaust brake occasionally when towing a small boat. Hopefully they look at it today and I'll post the results.
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Old 08-17-2007, 09:35 AM   #12
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I picked up my truck at lunch and asked about the 2200 rpm comment I heard -- diesel tech was called from the shop and said that there is a tech bulletin or service bulletin (I didn't catch which when he said it) but that before they call STAR they are to run the vehicle for 4 to 5 miles steady drive at between 2200 and 2500 RPM (with the Engine already warmed up). Then they are to run whatever tests, call STAR with results, etc... We (service writer and I) both asked him how this applied to the 08s and he said that STAR had told him it is a heat and air volume issue; although the exhaust may be hot enough, there is not enough flow through the DPF to burn the soot off and clear the air holes sufficiently. So even though the soot burns off, the ash still plugs the holes. So, when you are driving it down the road unloaded at 70/75 mph, the throttle is barely open (very efficient fuel/air mixture); you drive down the road at 70/75 (or 60/65 as I chimed in) loaded, pulling our trailers, then there is also a very efficient fuel/air mixture, just a lot more of it.

Regardless, he stressed it was not only heat but also air volume that was needed to keep the DPF open. In time, there will be so much ash created that the DPF will have to be removed and 'professionally cleaned'. I asked when that should be and service writer said it was originally supposed to be 100K miles or more of driving; however, given what they are now seeing, he thinks it will be sooner. (Nothing from DC -- I guess they are still DC -- officially on it though).

Diesel Tech had heard me telling one of the other guys the 'Drive it Like you Stole it' expression and said that was the case. The diesel is meant to be worked and it thrives on such usage. He said that other than routine oil, transfer case, and transmission services, the working diesels had no other repairs that he could remember.

Hope this helps.

By the way, I had EGT, Boost and Transmission Temp gages put in while in ABQ. Not a thing was said about them today when I picked my truck up from service.

After pulling my trailer over Raton pass last weekend and watching the water temp gage climb (and climb), I decided piece of mind was worth the possibility of problems later -- So I had them installed. Found on the way back that, at 95 to 101 outside air temp, the EGT stayed well below 1300 except in extreme cases; boost tops out at 30 psi (must be when the wastegate opens up), and tranny temp stayed at 180 or below!! I was surprised where they put the probe for the EGT (I failed to specify - they did tell me it would be on the exhaust manifold but I didn't ask and they didn't tell me where until after the fact) and they installed it between the #2 and #3 cylinders, on top. I asked then and they told me they used to put it by the #5 (if on top) or on the downtube but on the newer (later 06s and 07s) the design was changed and they don't do it that way anymore (at least at that shop). So, bottom line, they may not have been needed but I'm much more satisfied that things are running correctly.
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Old 08-17-2007, 10:47 AM   #13
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Good info, thanks. I haven't checked the diesel forums to see if this is mentioned there yet but no doubt it will be soon. I don't have the gauges. Yet.

Skypilot, I forgot -- you have the 6.7L Dodge, right? I read somewhere the 6.7 does not have a wastegate. My 6.0 Ford didn't have one either.

Any idea where they put the probe for the transmission temp?
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Old 08-17-2007, 11:06 AM   #14
mtpocket2
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Well the dealer called and the truck is ready. I must say Century Dodge in Wentzville, MO has been very good about getting the truck in and out both times this has happened. I told the service guy I appreciated his help. I would recommend them when your new dodge breaks in St. Louis.

Now for the bad. It was the dpf. They replaced some parts and did the rapid response. It was still in the shop letting the turbo cool because and I quote "it was very hot". Also in talking to a diesel tech at a very large dealer (largest in St. Louis)he told me this is just the beginning. Cummins has 4000 turbos on order and are not taking orders for more at this time. They are seeing soot buildup in the turbos which eventually trashes the turbo and all the emissions junk behind it. He said its not a matter of if it will happen its a matter of when. My suggestion for buying a new dodge is to not buy one. If you must look up every TSB and rapid response you can find and make sure they are done before you leave the dealers lot. Looks like Cummins and Dodge took a lesson from Ford on how to screw up a diesel motor. Ford had the international's that were bullet proof and Cummins had the 5.9s that were that way also. If I find out any more details when I pick it up I will pass it along.

Skypilot my water temp gauge worry's me also. Pulling the 3400 on fairly level ground I have seen it go to 225 for unknown reasons. It doesnt stay but for a couple of minutes. I know I have to quit living in the past but if I remember correctly the 5.9 had 2 gallons more cooling capacity. I dunno.

So I am taking bets. While on vacation will the truck die on the boat ramp and I get beat up by an angry mob who cant launch their boat or will the boat quit in the middle of the lake. It's adult beverage time again.
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Old 08-17-2007, 04:50 PM   #15
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Steve: I have an 06 5.9L; I had an 04.5 with 48RE but it couldn't take an exhaust brake so when Dodge came out with the beefed up 48RE and allowed the exhaust brake - I traded. I have now driven 3 different 6.7L (2 auto and 1 manual - one of the autos pulling an unloaded 30 ft horse trailer) and I love the auto -- If I could afford it I'd trade in a minute -- unfortunately - daughter is expecting first grandkids (yeap, twins) and wife has put a halt to my spending as she prepares to spend on the new little ones .

MT: I'm not sure about the overall capacity but I know that the new ones use water to cool EGR and other items now that the 5.9s didn't do. That EGR has to be hot so I'd expect it to run hotter; hopefully DC enlarged the radiator / cooling capacity to take that into account (heaven forbid we become the next Duramax overheater!!! GMC messed up there and I read posts of people still having problems with those!!)

Regardless, if I had the means, I'd have no qualms going with a new Dodge today. The jury is definitely still out on the DPF though -- regardless of who makes the truck. Enjoy that adult beverage!!
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Old 08-17-2007, 05:05 PM   #16
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This post was off topic and was deleted by RVWheels.
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Old 08-17-2007, 05:54 PM   #17
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Hemlockusa, I agree with you 100%. Can I hear an AMEN?
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Old 08-17-2007, 06:10 PM   #18
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Here is my frustration with the new emissions. I used to get better fuel mileage out of my older truck. So if I am burning more fuel to go the same distance how is that helping anything. The more fuel I burn the more fuel has to be delivered to the pump. That means I am putting out more emissions and so are the delivery trucks to the stations. My intention is not to turn this into an enviromental debate and if I have offended anyone I am sorry also.

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Old 08-18-2007, 03:59 AM   #19
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Skypilot, I don't recall the exact coolant capacity numbers and it's raining so I'm not going out to check the manual. But I do know mine runs 195, which is likely the thermostat setting, when solo. Towing on flatlands it runs 195 to 200. On grades as much as 6% it will run as high as 205, which I think is an excellent number. On an 8% grade in 90 degree weather it climbed to about 210 briefly then came right back down to about 205. I took a grade I think was 10% based on the sign for the downhill side but it was a short one, not long enough to make much difference in temperature. Maybe a quarter mile long. So far I'm very pleased with the temperatures. However, this is the dash gauge and not an aftermarket gauge.

I don't know what to think about the dpf issue and the tech comments. I just scoured the Cummins Dodge Diesel Forum and found nothing at all like this. A few folks had the plugged dpf early on but those have been fixed by the TSB back in mid-June.

I'm also not seeing anything about serious turbo problems in that forum. So, again, I don't know what to think.
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Old 08-18-2007, 01:43 PM   #20
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FWIW: I had to take my 5er to KC, dealer for some warranty work. Doing 60 - 65 EGT ran 10 - 1200 consistently on the hills of eastern Kansas (would sometimes climb to a little above 1300 before tranny downshifted and RPMs increased, EGT dropped like a rock to about 8 and then back up to 1000 until cresting the hill when it shifted again). Boost was mostly 15 to 20 normally, climbing to 30 at times on the hills. Coming back solo, doing 70-75 (oops); EGT never went above 1000, most of the time was 700 to 800; boost ran below 10 most of the time; never downshifted on the hills and never went above 20 on the boost that I saw.

Reason I post this is to show some actual numbers as they run on my 06 3500 5.9L 48RE 4X4. Given the lower EGTs and Boost I think it shows why running solo at highway speeds doesn't generate enough heat or volume to clean the DPFs. DC, and the other auto makers, are going to have to do something and the program updates that have already been done may be what was / is needed. I think the Jury is being heard by all three auto makers and they are trying to get a good, reliable product out.
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