New Texas Laws?

[SlickWillie]

Back to Texas; we do not have to have a vehicle registration in vehicles unless they are commercial, only a windshield sticker.

[Wiarton William]

Paying heed to slickwillies back to texas suggestion but...also after 30 years as LEO...the last ten in Traffic....enforcement generates revenue.....the big push is for revenue and they know where to find it...

[Okie Guy]

It is true. I e-mailed a friend in SanAntonio last night and he responded today. He tells me everyone in their newsroom was talking about this yesterday. The troopers are training to check weights. Only a few are checking rigs now but they plan to have more of the staff trained by the end of the year. They are trying to do a story on it Monday. Also Dallas is working on a story for Monday night. These are both NBC stations. I am not sure if the Austin station is working on the story.
Stay Tuned....

[skypilot]

To add a little more to this -- attended an RV show today at the Kansas Coliseum, Wichita KS. Noticed that they had a 'bunch' of 5th wheels there that said - pull with 1/2 ton; and they all had trailer weights on big placards on each one (different dealers, different makes and models as well). In any case, asked one of the dealers about it, said it stood out to me. Said that they were that way because any of the bigger units (Escalade, Cardinals, and several others) all required the drivers to have CDL A's to pull them now. Gave them my "I'm confused" look and said 'What?'. Did this to two different dealer's sales droids and they both told me the same thing - that as of 1 Jan 2008, (Just caught my type - still writing 2007 instead of 2008 ) any driver towing a trailer over 10,000 pounds had to have a CDL class A license to be legal.

I also asked about the absence of Class A's; and larger 5th wheels (no Montana's present at all which is unusual for this show -- 4 Seaons normally has several units on display each year!!!). The 'manager' of the dealership came over at that point and asked me if I was a reporter or what -- why was I so curious. Told him about my office discussion and what I'd been told earlier. He said that Wichita's DL office had told them the above -- also said Class A RV drivers now had to have not only the Class A CDL but also an airbrake endorsement. Claimed the rule had already cost him a couple of Class A sales,not to mention larger units at the show!

Guess I'm going to visit with the county treasurers office again on Monday to check this out again -- but also to check out the item that Joe speaks about above. Several years ago when I had my Cougar my Ford F350 was registered at 12K; when I bought my Dodge it was also 12K; when I upgraded from the Cougar to the Mountaineer, they said I had to re-register my truck as a 20 which moved it to a different class (heavy truck category as I recall -- regardless it changed the way I was taxed, when I paid those taxes, and the registration amount about doubled). This last year (Jan 2007) when I went to register it for the upcoming year they (the county clerks office where we do our vehicle registration) told me that the law was reviewed and since I was pulling an RV trailer, my truck was to be considered the same as any other personal vehicle -- hence I was moved back to a 12 (they actually had to give me a new plate for the lower weight class); and my registration period was moved back to the normal alphabetic rotation that Kansas uses. This last year when it came time to register for 2008, I was continued at the 12.

So, given what Joe says above, it seems that I should actually be over 20 (Dodge is 8K as I recall and my trailer is 13800 GVRW by the external sticker). Man, what a pain this could become!!

Again, sorry for being so verbose -- when I get on the keyboard I forget how wordy I can get .

Be safe!!

[Waynem]

I'm surprised about the "air brakes," remark. My understanding is that you only need that, or any other endorsement, when you are driving a vehicle which requires that endorsement. An RV would have to have air brakes to have it mandatory to have that endorsement. At least in the CDL world that is the way it works. That is the way I understand it and have driven private commercial with CDL grossed out at 20-23K with electric brakes all the way around, triple axle, and was not required to have the air brake endorsement.

[SlickWillie]

I suppose you can call me a doubter. Perhaps the new laws that went into effect in September have caused some confusion. I did find this; SB 545, HB 1638 and HB 2077 added more than 40 municipal police departments to those police agencies eligible to have DPS train their peace officers to become certified to enforce commercial motor vehicle safety standards. You can find all the new laws here, and there is a link there to the text versions of the bills.

[MacDR50]

I always wondered about air brake endorsements for Class "A" MH drivers too. While not all have air brakes most if not all the diesel pushers have them. Endorsement not required here for RV's. What about you people with HDT haulers?

If states/provinces start to create a patchwork of regulations where some do and some don't then then those that do are going stop being destinations of choice and places to avoid if possible. It will also have a dampening effect on the whole RV industry. Seems to me that more efficient braking, hitch, tire monitoring and anti-sway systems are a better solution. Short sighted revenue generation may actually be a negative sum game. The other thing that seems strange to me is that trucks are getting more capable every year if you go by their ratings yet they seem to be essentially the same vehicle year over year. In another post in this forum we were told that the NHTSA?? has agreed with the manufacturers to come up with a standard for rating tow/load capacity. Hopefully this won't end up in a retroactive down-rating of existing trucks.

[sreigle]

You sure would think if there was really something to this we'd have heard something about it on CNN. I've not heard a word on any news outlet, not even my Yahoo news home page. Nada. So what gives?

[Joe-n-Doe]

I have spent the last several hours combing thru Texas vehicle registration statues (http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/tn.toc.htm) and the Texas Dept of Transportation website regarding vehicle registration (http://www.dot.state.tx.us/services/...gistration.htm).

Visit those links to find the registration fee schedule for light trucks, commercial vehicles, trailers, and busses. A search of RV or recreational vehicle will not produce any results. This means you need to wade thru definitions and paragraph after paragraph to get the relevant data.

Texas does require all classes of vehicles be registered and in respect to light and commercial trucks the cost of registration is directly related to weight (ftp://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-...42-attach2.pdf) (base fee of $25 plus an amount based on the weight of the truck. Trailers also must be registered. The registration fee for trailers is also based upon weight. (http://www.dot.state.tx.us/txdotefor...vletConfig.xml)

Registered owners are provided both a receipt and sticker. The receipt contains personal information and data regarding the vehicle and is the document you present to LEOs when asked for your registration. The sticker is applied on the driver’s side outside lower corner of the windshield.

Texas defines a light truck as a truck with a manufacturer’s rated carrying capacity of one ton or less based upon the vehicles gross weight. They further define the term “Gross Weight” as the actual weight of the vehicle fully equipped with body and other equipment, as certified by any official public Weigher or any License and Weight Inspector of the Department of Public Safety, plus its net carrying capacity. “Net carrying capacity” of any vehicle shall be the weight of the heaviest net load to be carried on the vehicle being registered, provided said net carrying capacity shall in no case be less than the manufacturer’s rated carrying capacity.

Given those definitions and the class of trailer we tow/haul, in Texas, most, if not all, of our TVs are commercial vehicles.

Of note, is the emphasis made on the Texas DOT website regarding the amount of revenue generated by vehicle registrations ($1.3 billion). Also of note is the “Put Texas in Your Corner” media campaign being waged by TEX DOT. The purpose of this campaign to motivate non-compliant owners to register their vehicles. Why? Late registration, failure to register, or improperly registered vehicles is cost the state “millons” of dollars.

Bottom line, Revenue and not Safety is what these rumored enforcement campaigns are all about. And if the rumors prove true, the cliché of “what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas” ain’t going to hold water. Other states will implement similar initiatives.

Oh, I found this link on another forum you all might find of interest: http://www.towingworld.com/articles/TowingLaws.htm

[HughM]

I think that one word elminates RV's from that law--commercial. As stated in SlickWillie posting it states that "DPS train their peace officers to become certified to enforce commercial motor vehicle safety standards."
Private owned RV's are not under DOT regulations. If we were we would be having weight limits posted on the side of our tow vehicles, drivers would be having annual physicals and so on.
As far as I know that hasn't happen and is very unlikely to happen.

Lets be glad we're not connected to "commercial transportation".
Hugh

[OntMont]

If this is true, sooner or later, we will hear of someone actually being stopped and checked. It seems that in many jurisdictions, (Ontario being one), the regulators have not really addressed the large 5th wheel trailer situation properly. We end up in some grey area between regular cars and commercial trucks. There have been several regulatory changes in Ontario recently to provide specific exemptions for RVs from the regulations that are intended for true commercial trucks. At present Ontario requires a Class A license if a trailer transmits more than 4600 kg or 10,141 lbs to the road via the axles. Reportedly, this number is under review, and is expected to be raised for RV's in the near future.

An air brake endorsement is definitely required in Ontario, if you are driving an RV with air brakes. This is enforced.

License fees are applied to the truck only, based on the maximum weight you want to haul.

[richfaa]

Are we sure we are not confusing a STATE generated requirement for Rv licensing with the Federal CDL requirements. No matter what the State may call their RV licensing program it IS NOT the Federal mandated program but rather as Joe suggest a State revenue generating program.. The "air brake " comment causes me to be suspicious..I have the Federal Mandated CDL as many on this forum do. We have a "air brake" endorsement that is required IF you drive a vehicle with Air brakes..if you do NOT drive a vehicle with air brakes you do not need that endorsement which leads me to believe that the ..must have a air brake endorsement is referring to the Federal requirements and I don't think you can get a Class A CDL, which you must have to drive a"multi vehicle" without a Air brake endorsement.By the Federal standards IF it met the weight requirement, a RV would be a "multi vehicle" There are other endorsement on the Federal mandated ptogram such as .....School bus, Hazmet, Tanker and you only need them IF you are driving that kind of vehicle. The word "commerical" eliminates, As Hugh suggest, the RV from the Federal Mandated CDL rules and regs,Unless you ARE hauling the RV commerical. The State..in Implementing it's own "rv licensing or CDL program can make any rule or law they desire. Very confusing and conflicting information.I am however sure that the States will get us.

[trukdoc]

I live here in Texas and drive I-30 on a daily basis. I cover about 40,000 miles a year. And of all the accidents I see, and there have been some bad ones in the area. I have yet to see but one accident involving a livestock trailer, wheel fell off and hit a car. I have not seen a RV trailer in an accident. I have no doubt it happens, I question the fact that it is a problem big enough for DOT to FOCUS on RV's.

[skypilot]

Rich: Not confusing the state vs. federal at all, I agree 100 percent, in fact the State of Kansas web site located at http://www.dmv.org/ks-kansas/cdl-faqs.php has part of it -- quoting (actually just cut and pasting) http://www.dmv.org/ks-kansas/apply-cdl.php "The standard requirements for CDLs are based on federal guidelines and each class of CDL is the same from state to state. If you intend to drive certain types of equipment, you are required to hold an additional endorsement for that equipment, including the following. They require extra testing. .....You will also be required to pass a written knowledge test about air brakes, if the vehicle you will drive is equipped with them. "

Now - again taking from the Kansas web site: "CDL Classes for Every State
To be eligible for a CDL, you must have a clean driving record. Federal regulations require you to pass a physical exam every two years. You must be able to read and speak English well enough to read road signs, prepare reports, and communicate with the public and with law enforcement.

The Act established three separate classes of commercial driver's licenses. Every state issues licenses in these categories:

Class A: Any combination of vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating (GWVR) of 26,001 or more pounds, provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
Class B: Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.
Class C: Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is placarded for hazardous materials.
Many states make exceptions for farm vehicles, snow removal vehicles, fire and emergency vehicles, and some military vehicles. "

Please note the last paragraph - this is what I believe the the local authorities will now have to look into -- the exceptions do not list 'Recreation Vehicles (RVs)'. (In some ways I wish the web had dates of last update required -- I'd like to know if this is the 'new' change or if it has been this way for some time and was just never brought up in discussion.

Oh well, later today I'll try to call and get some more information. If I need it, I have a couple of months to pass the thing I guess.

[Delaine and Lindy]

Well the States have found another way to get more of our money. I have carried a Class A CDL every since they became law, and have always carried a Lic to drive Tractor Trailers (18 wheelers). I do find it strange that Texas is getting this thing going. Texas didn't have in ground scales until the federal goverment got after them. I really don't think that the Texas tourism people are going to like this law. But if you haven't been to the RGV you haven't seen Rv parks. I guess there are over 500 plus RV parks in the RGV. However if your going to pull large 5th wheels, you should just get you correct Lic to pull them. Because the greed for revenue is on the way. GBY....

[richfaa]

The plot thickens...Example by the Federal Guidelines...My F-350 Ford truck 9200lbs and my Max weight 3400 13975lbs=23175 lbs. Those numbers do no fall into ANY of the class of License.Even though the State issues the license (Ohio)( Kansas) the CDL part is federal mandated and the standards are set by the Feds and are uniform with all States... as you are aware. There are no updates to the Commercial Motor vehicle act of 1986 to include Rv's. The act sets minimum standards and the States can not enact less...To somehow include RV's the States may use the federal guidelines but will have to add language to include RV's,and I am sure they will.When I go to any State web site and look at the requirements for CDL the 'C" standing for Commerical..they will be identical. A State program for additional licensing for RV's will have to be a stand alone program.... There is NO RV endorsement for a CDL within the Commercial Motor Vehicle Act of 1986 and the individual State can NOT put one there. We are all learning..

This is a direct quote from the OHIO BMV site for the CDL license

" You should note that you do not need a CDL to drive farm vehicles, snow removal vehicles, recreational vehicles, and fire and emergency vehicles

[Delaine and Lindy]

The more I read this Lic requirement from some states, it has nothing to do with the Commercial Goverment mandated Laws. The Commercial CDL was started because the guys driving 18 wheelers over the road thru out the lower 48 carried more than one drivers lic. The case being they could have many speeding tickets, accidents and the States had no idea. That is the reason for the CDL.

But I can assure you the States can change their requiements without the Federal Goverments ok. Its just a matter of time before all States will have some kind of indorsement for RV. Just look at the size of the 5th wheels?

The Commercial Drivers have always complained about RVer's jumping into a large MH or dragging a 5th wheel and go as many miles in one day as they want to. A commerical Driver can only go 10 hours per day with a break of so many hour. And yes I know they do run more sometimes. You know two log books etc. I still don't think Texas will go after the RVer's. And if they do as long as you are legal in you States who ever issued your Lic. you should have a problem. GBY..

[Joe-n-Doe]

quote:Originally posted by Delaine and Lindy

I really don't think that the Texas tourism people are going to like this law. GBY....

If Texas is in fact initiating these enforcement measures (registration enforcement), my sense tells me the target audience will be those vehicles registered in Texas more so than out-of-staters. And for the most part, detection can be achieved in local offices by cross referencing vehicles and RVs already registered.

If these rumors are true, I think you will also see a crackdown on vehicles registered as Farm Vehicles being used for non-farm (family) business.

The biggest concern I, as a snowbird, would have is Texas resident laws. I don't know how they read, but conceivably they could be structured in such a way to require RV'ers residing in Texas for a stated period of time to re-register their vehicles and change their drivers license......Oh, but thats another can of worms I've just opened.

[buschet1]

This is very interesting reading. In 2007 I moved to PA from MD. When I went to register my truck in PA, the lady at the title office asked what I used the truck for. I told her just general purpose and to tow a 5th wheel RV. She stopped writing looked up and said “how much does the trailer weigh? Over 10000#?” I answered yes. She handed me all of my paperwork back and said I had to get the truck and trailer weighed together and separately. Then take the weight certificates, the truck and trailer to a PA inspection station and have a PA state inspector sign off that he has verified the truck could handle the weight of the trailer. When I questioned all of this she told me that as of January 1, 2007 state law requires all private TVs pulling trailers over 10000# must have a weight sticker on the windshield. When I was weighing my vehicles at the local truck stop and moaning about this whole ordeal, the clerk told me that they had seen an increase of small trucks pulling trailers being pulled over and weighed right in front of the truck stop. When it was all done it cost me $467.00 to get my pickup truck tags because of weight. And I’ll have to pay that amount every year plus the trailer tags. Since then I pay attention to small trucks with trailer pulled over. I haven’t seen any RVs yet. Mostly horse trailers and farm trucks.

[richfaa]

But I can assure you the States can change their requiements without the Federal Goverments ok. Its just a matter of time before all States will have some kind of indorsement for RV. Just look at the size of the 5th wheels?"... Yes the States CAN change the STATES requirements without the Federal Governments approval..but the change can not be lessor than the Federal requirements.Ohio Excludes RV's from their requirements....now..because the Federal mandated requirement do not cover RV's... My CDl, issued in Ohio mmets the Federal mandated requirements and a RV is excluded..I am good in all States.....for now....