How's Steve & Vicki

[Sue]

Just checking in to see how you guys are? We got about 10 inches of snow last nite, worse the more south of us.

Hope all is well. Hope your NOT frozen anymore.

[vickir]

Hi Sue ... Actually, we're pretty much completely frozen up ... all the waterlines and (this is the best part) the sewer line. We decided to just buy a bunch of water and will use the park's shower facilities until we thaw out again. We didn't get any snow ... just horrible frigid temperatures ... I think today's high is supposed to be 16. We'll be at our son's house most of Saturday and Sunday's temps are supposed to be in the 40s, so we'll just have to rough it for a few days. Thanks for asking and Steve will give you a more detailed report.

[sreigle]

Thanks for asking. It's not been a fun day. Well, part of it was fun. We were visited by MOC members and prospective Montana owners. That part was nice. They are very nice people. We enjoyed their visit.

Back to the bad part. With low point drains heat taped, water hose heat taped, and park's water line heat taped, I tried bumping the thermostat to 72 to keep more heat in the belly. That seemed to work fine yesterday with a high of about 17F or 18F. When we went to bed it was 14F and our water was still fine so I decided to keep the furnace at 72 and just close the door to upstairs to keep it cooler up there. At 3:30am I checked the water. All was fine. Checked the weather channel. 5F degrees so I thought we finally solved this problem. At 6:30am Vicki woke me and said no water anywhere. Drat. 3F. Sure enough, not even cold water in the bathroom, which is something we had before. That means we were not getting water into the rig. Looking at it, I think it froze in the park's water connection right in the head of that thing. My heat tape didn't go high enough to keep the faucet part itself from freezing. I had insulated that but that was not enough.

Turned on our water pump (2/3 of a tank of fresh water) and we have cold water to the bathroom using the pump. So we can use the potty and the bathroom sink (cold only). That means we are frozen in the belly. Or maybe the low point drains again although they are heat taped. We don't get above freezing again until Saturday afternoon, Christmas Day, and we won't be home. So Sunday.

Meanwhile, needed to dump the black tank. Pulled the dump handle on the black tank and found that our 40 feet of sewer hose was frozen solid. I'd left the gray valves open and, as Gypsy predicted, ice built up in there even though we weren't running water all night. And had no noticeable dips in the line. Lifted the hose in a few places to break up the ice. Sewage started working its way down the line, slowly, but then the sewer line cracked in the places I had lifted and we had raw sewage running around our concrete pad. Shut off the dump valve but the sewage still between tank and dump cap continued to run out. Couldn't shut my extra gate valve, it was frozen open. In the future in subfreezing weather I'll keep the gray valves closed until ready to dump. The valves in the basement are operable but the galley tank valve under the slide is frozen open. No biggie this time as we don't have water to the galley anyhow but I wonder if it would freeze shut and not be able to dump?

Went to walmart and bought plenty of drinking water and a gallon of bleach to cleanup the mess. By the time I got back the sewage was frozen solid. I have no way to hook up a hose until things thaw out. And can't heat enough water fast enough for cleaning it up. So when it starts to smell I'll know it's thawing out and will go out and clean it up.

Breeze's visit turned this into an enjoyable day. Otherwise it wasn't a lot of fun!

Vicki just told me about Gruffy's change of the range hood fan switch and wants me to read that. Looks like a trip to the hardware store is in order.

[Montana_2180]

Steve,

Sorry to hear about your bad experience!

Hope to not make matters worse (or add insult to injury) but I have good news! I didn't freeze last night!

After I opened up the belly by my low point drains and heat taped it (see yesterday's post by me concerning same subject), I kept the heat at 64 all night...seems like the furnace ran continuously! I heard it shut off a few times, but it started again about 2 minutes later!

Anyhow, I lowered the T'stat to 58 for while I was gone at work all day...came home and still have water!

One thing I did do, not sure if you did, Steve, was to run a small ceramic heater in my basement...to be sure the lines in there don't freeze...I have some of them wrapped, but gave up when I saw some running across to the other side along the front wall...didn't have enough foam insulation...

I also have most of the lines heat taped in the basement and wrapped with foam as well, as I said in my other post...that may be the difference too...

Sure hope you thaw out and I am very sorry to hear about your icing mess...no fun!

Hope your Christmas is blessed...

Chip

[Glenn and Lorraine]

Ya know Steve if you guys would have just came down to Fla you would be nice and warm with all the hot and cold, but not frozen, water you need.

[sreigle]

Yeah, Glenn, I know. And, believe me, at times like this I constantly am trying to figure out how to convince at least one of the kids to move!

Chip, glad to hear you're in good shape now! I may have to drop the pan in better weather and do some heattaping there. I have the pipes in the basement insulated with foam but haven't used a heater there. Based on the layout of ours I don't think we're freezing there. But I'll doublecheck. Pizza's here, gotta go.

Pizza in one hand, typing with the other. I wonder if the heater in the basement would work more heat into the belly? I already plugged all the openings with expanding foam. Thoughts anyone?

[OntMont]

Hi Steve and Vicki,

Sorry to hear about your freezing problem. I was about to suggest the obvious but others beat me to it. I think if you could get an electric heater (two or more if you can find the power to run them)into the belly, it might do some good. Unfortunately (as I think you know all too well), once it freezes, it is difficult to thaw out especially in the cold condtions that are prevalent now.

Hope you can enjoy Christmas with your family (which I think is why you are where you are), and then head somewhere warm, ASAP.

[Gypsy]

So sorry for your escalated problems, Steve. But I won't gloat like Glenn. I'll just be glad I'm in sunny southern California and not in New England like last year. Good luck! I don't think I can offer any more advice as you're doing everything possible to resolve the problems.

Merry Christmas!

[H. John Kohl]

Steve and Vicki,
Sorry to hear about the "HARD WATER". A comment, you might put your location in your signature page or text when your talking about temp at a specific location. I forgot where you were staying right now.
Hope no major damage to Monti.
Good luck,

[HamRad]

John... I like your "Hard Water"... I believe they are in the Kansas City area right now... Where ever they are it is too cold!

Steve and Vicki I am so sorry you are having so much fun! We're having a real cold snap here in Bakersfield. It got down to freezing last night and only up to about 55 today. We've got to get some warm weather soon or we're gonna have to move further south.

Vicki how did a nice San Diego type girl like yourself end up in such a cold place? Guess that "legend" must keep you warm.

Stay cool... er... I mean warm. :-)

Dennis and Mary Kay

[Bill and Ann]

I thought we were cold this morning until I read this post. Our temp in the Rio Grande Valley this am was 39 deg. Supposed to go down to 28 deg. tonight and back to the 80's next week. I feel for you guys. REALLY!. I can't imagine going through that. Last year we left the rig in Tx. and went home to Ontario for xmas (5,000 mile round trip) and I swore we wouldn't do that again. The kids will be fine without us. This is our first xmas without them. But hey, that's the breaks.

[vickir]

We're still here and still frozen. Our new problem is dealing with the smell created by the frozen/broken sewer line. Even though it's frozen, it still smells out there and, since we'll be gone when it probably thaws out, I'm a concerned about it. Any ideas anyone?

The "plus" of this situation is that I'm not having to cook ... certainly don't want any more dirty dishes than necessary sitting around smelling up the place! At least that ploy worked last night (had Papa John's delivered) ... we'll see what I can get away with tonight!

Dennis ... since it's been nearly 30 years since I lived in San Diego I've become climatized. However, I didn't think I was ever going to be warm again during my first winter or two in Kansas and, although I like the cold, this is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too frigid.

Yes, we would be warmer in Florida or Texas, and Steve wouldn't mind at all being there, but I simply can't bear the idea of not being with our kids and our two youngest granddaughters for the holidays, so he "indulges" me. Unfortunately, the weather here just hasn't been very cooperative ... it really isn't usually this cold in December. But we're almost through the worst of it ... hopefully!!!

[HamRad]

Hi Vicki and Steve,
I'm sure you've already tried this but while everything is still frozen why don't you:
1: Unhook the frozen and broken hose and throw it away.
2: Get a shovel and scoop up the frozen stuff and dispose of it.
3: If the smell is still there pour some diluted vinegar or some diluted chlorine or
whatever chemical you put on the spots that smell a little funky.

But! Hey! What do I know about cold weather stuff! Good luck.

HamRad

[sreigle]

I think I'm going to see if I can borrow a shovel and do just that, Dennis. The broken hose is gone. It came apart so I had many small pieces strung together by the wire coils. Hauled that down to the dumpster. Fortunately it's down near the exit, far from any rigs so when it thaws it won't be noticeable, unless you lift the lid to the dumpster. I have a gallon of bleach that should work on the smell. And Sunday it should be in the forties so I'll get out there with a hose and a broom followed by bleach. Thanks for the ideas.

[Sue]

Steve & Vicki,
Hope your warm. You said you hauled the old hose down to the dumpster and is away from any rigs, are other people in the park having the same trouble or does it just seem to be you?

[Random Line]

I have a gallon of bleach that should work on the smell. And Sunday it should be in the forties so I'll get out there with a hose and a broom followed by bleach. Thanks for the ideas.
------------------------------------------------------

Steve:

I don't know when you want to get on the road and I don't envy you cleaning up the mess but the following may help you controll the odor and expedite the cleanup process.

The fozen "effluent" can be thawed before the ambient temperature reaches 32 degrees F if you spread salt or chloride over the mess.
Chloride is probably better if you can get it because it will do less damage to concrete surfaces. As it melts you might try pouring kitty litter or sawdust or wood chips over it as an absorbent which will make it possible to shovel the "stuff" up and haul it to the dumpster.

You might try any process you use on a small area to make sure that no volatile or super vile combinations occur that cannot be contended with.

I'm sorry that you have to deal with this mess and if it didn't hurt when I laugh I would tell you what I did the other day right after reading a bunch of the Montana head bumping stories just posted.

Oh well thats RVing.

Happy New Year.

[sreigle]

Thanks for the tips, Jim. In a couple of hours I'm headed out to do the cleanup. Won't be fun since it spread under the sewer hose supports, under the water hose (heat taped, insulated, and duct tape wrapped) and three electrical cords running to the three heat tapes I have going. So I have quite a bit of cleaning to do.

We thawed out on Christmas Day a couple of hours before we were to leave for the kids' place. So, we had our own hot showers.

Now that we look back on it, being froze up really wasn't that bad. On the 3295RK the fresh water tank and the water pump are close to the bathroom area so we had cold water at the bathroom sink and at the toilet. So no need for cold trips to the shower house in the middle of the night. The furnace kept us very comfortable and we even had to turn it down a little when it got too warm. Christmas Day when things were starting to thaw we bumped the furnace to 80 to get lots of warm air into the basement. We had to run the fantastic fan to help cool things off in here. The park has a very nice warm, private, clean shower house about 50 yards away. All in all, it was doable although we'd like to have had our own hot water. With all the insulating and heat taping we were ok down to 5 degrees F. But at 3F we froze and stayed frozen until the ambient temperature rose above freezing a few days later.

[sreigle]

I see now the official temperature at the time we froze up was minus 4 F. I'm not sure I could tell the difference between 5 above and 4 below but apparently our pipes can.