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01-01-2010, 07:59 AM
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#1
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Glenrock
Posts: 155
M.O.C. #8761
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Education needed (update)
Does anyone have a photo of what an auto reset breaker for the hydraulic pump looks like?
>>Has anyone had the Polarity Reversing Solenoid fail on the Lippert Hydraulic pump?
http://store.lci1.com/shared/StoreFront/........_large.asp?RowID=179&SKUID=&GalleryID=28
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01-01-2010, 08:39 AM
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#3
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Glenrock
Posts: 155
M.O.C. #8761
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Thanks for the info. I thought that is what they looked like.
A little more detail. The first time I ran the slides in, I depressed the "glide room in" button in longer than needed. I did not have a visual of the slide. The next time I tried to open up, all I get is a click. This noise is coming from where the pump electrical connections are terminated. Would this be a auto reset breaker issue, or the pump. The slides I have on the cable system work fine, so I think I have good batteries.
Is there a reset button for the pump? From a visual, I did not see one.
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01-01-2010, 12:02 PM
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#4
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Essex
Posts: 99
M.O.C. #9104
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I just looked at mine, and don't see a reset either
It's possible that the relay on top of the pump motor may have been damaged last time you used it.
I'd check the connections on the relay, and the motor for tightness (use caution to not short anything out) and if that doesn't fix it, then it's time for some warranty work
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01-01-2010, 02:20 PM
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#5
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: North Vernon
Posts: 261
M.O.C. #9087
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I also need an education on why they put two protection devices in parallel. Does not make sense to me. Anybody got any serious explaination? Thanks in advance.
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01-01-2010, 05:18 PM
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#6
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Montana Master
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Murrieta
Posts: 5,816
M.O.C. #9257
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Putting two protection devices in parallel doubles the amperage allowed for the devices in total. For example, if you put two 40 devices in parallel you end up with 80 amps of protection. Many 5ers are known to be over protected with only a 40 amp or 50 amp circuit breaker. What happens is with frequent use, the resettable breakers will trip causing the slideouts to start & stop excessively. Increasing the amount of amperage allowed by doubling the circuit breakers will prevent much of this since the motors and slideouts should allow it. If after doing this you still experience starting and stopping, this may mean that the slideouts need attention, such as maintenance or adjustment.
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01-01-2010, 11:33 PM
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#7
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Waterford
Posts: 3,693
M.O.C. #7500
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by farmboy
I also need an education on why they put two protection devices in parallel. Does not make sense to me. Anybody got any serious explaination? Thanks in advance.
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The purpose as Art pointed out is to increase the amps available to the motor, but the reason for using two small breakers instead of one larger breaker is cost. You already have one 40 amp, so adding a second will cost around $10 (if you already have the wire, etc.), whereas an 80 amp breaker will cost considerably more and is harder to find. You can find the 40 amp at any auto parts place. Just make sure it's an auto reset.
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01-02-2010, 01:29 AM
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#8
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: North Vernon
Posts: 261
M.O.C. #9087
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Art-- Tom, Question I still don't get it. If you draw more than 40 or 50amps across any one c/b does it not trip? I understand resistance and capacitance in parallel and series circuits, but circuit protection in parallel is not the same in my mind. If it does double as you say why is the wiring not upgraded also? If two 50 amps are in parallel thus giving 100amps as you say then the wire would have to be a #2 not a #6. Right? Just asking. PM me your answers if you want to so as not to confuse others. Thanks, John
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01-02-2010, 02:02 AM
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#9
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Lawrenceville
Posts: 279
M.O.C. #5356
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Quote:
quote:If two 50 amps are in parallel thus giving 100amps as you say then the wire would have to be a #2 not a #6. Right?
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I am also curious about doubling the breaker protection and not increasing the size of the wiring. Do you run a higher risk of burning up the pump motoer???
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01-02-2010, 02:27 AM
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#10
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Montana Master
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Texas City
Posts: 5,736
M.O.C. #7673
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I think another way to look at it is that in a series circuit the current remains the same and the voltage is the sum of the voltages across each component. In the parallel circuit the voltage remains the same and the current is the sum of current across each component.
The load on the motor is dependent on the voltage at its terminals being maintained at a value close to its rated value. When voltage drops exceed the limits of the motor, then the protection of the circuit needs to be equivalent to the current draw in the circuit. As the supply voltage drops, the current will increase. Placing the parallel circuit breaker in the circuit will allow for the current changes produced by a supply voltage that can vary.
That's my opinion, but I could be wrong. Oopps! I told my wife I was wrong, once - but I quickly changed it to I was mistaken once.
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01-02-2010, 04:49 AM
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#11
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Montana Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: anywhere
Posts: 912
M.O.C. #6260
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The easy way to state all this is it is a known fact that the breaker is undersized out of the factory, the pump folks state an 80 amp breaker and keystone puts in a 40. The wire is the correct size, not the breaker. Found that on the pump manufacturer web site (BREAKER SIZE).
I put two 40's in parallel a couple of years ago, no further problems.
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01-02-2010, 12:09 PM
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#12
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: North Vernon
Posts: 261
M.O.C. #9087
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Sorry Gentelmen, but I still have to disagree. No electrical or sientific reasons given. We will just to have to agree to disagree on this item.
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01-03-2010, 12:00 AM
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#13
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Summerville
Posts: 375
M.O.C. #8908
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by farmboy
Sorry Gentelmen, but I still have to disagree. No electrical or sientific reasons given. We will just to have to agree to disagree on this item.
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Waynem is right on target. The current load is spilt between the two fuses.
__________________
Bobby . . June
2019 "3791RD" Montana - 2019 Chevy Duramax/Allison 3500 Crewcab
Summerville, South Carolina
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01-03-2010, 03:22 AM
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#14
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: North Vernon
Posts: 261
M.O.C. #9087
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by The Old Fogies
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by farmboy
Sorry Gentelmen, but I still have to disagree. No electrical or sientific reasons given. We will just to have to agree to disagree on this item.
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Waynem is right on target. The current load is spilt between the two fuses.
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Can you or will you provide a rescource reference for your position that will educate me contrary to my beleifs, or substansuate your position. Thanks
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01-03-2010, 04:21 AM
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#15
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location:
Posts: 2,156
M.O.C. #6920
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boje,
as you maybe aware Lippert Components, a company of Drew Inc, has it's own website - www.lci1.com with alot of Support info and numbered LIP Sheets concerning their components. LIP Sheet 0058 may help with your inquiry. It shows original configuration then a new configuration. The original is 50A and the new is 80A in LIP0058. I would suggest you contact Keystone/or Lippert directly for their input. It appears you have a new model and repairs or mods can be accomplished with no expense to you if there is a problem. I am not an electrician just a Montana owner. Hope this helps. Click below. Dennis
LIP Sheet 0058
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01-03-2010, 04:32 AM
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#16
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Glenrock
Posts: 155
M.O.C. #8761
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Thanks for your assistance Dennis.
Bob
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01-03-2010, 02:44 PM
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#17
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: North Vernon
Posts: 261
M.O.C. #9087
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Dennis I thank you too.
John
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01-03-2010, 03:11 PM
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#18
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Lawrenceville
Posts: 279
M.O.C. #5356
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Dennis, thank you for that info. Guess i have to call Lippert and order a 80A. Auto reset breaker to upgrade the montana befor that becomes a problem..
Randy
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01-03-2010, 10:55 PM
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#19
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Waterford
Posts: 3,693
M.O.C. #7500
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Study Ohm's law in relationship to DC circuits. If you have one 20K resistor in a circuit, total resistance is 20K. If you have two 20K resistors in parallel, total resistance is less than 20K because it amperage is balanced between the two legs of the circuit. Current in a parallel circuit is dependent upon the load in each leg of the circuit. Wiring two circuit breakers in parallel has the same effect, allowing amperage to balance between the two legs, up to their maximum rating.
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01-04-2010, 02:13 AM
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#20
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: North Vernon
Posts: 261
M.O.C. #9087
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Tom -- Is it not true that if those resistor are 1/2 watt and if you draw nore that 1/2 watt accross then it will blow or burn up. Thus a current limiter such as a c/b? I see the c/bs as current limiters in the circuit and no relation ship to resisters which cause voltage drop. True?
On edit: I believe the fuses as exampled are only in parral to each other, not the circut. They are effectively in series to the circuit as it should be for circuit protection.
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