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Old 06-21-2018, 09:51 AM   #41
Mark7
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Originally Posted by rohrmann
This can be half right, that there is 240 volts in the RV that isn't used, but there can also be 208 volts, depending on the transformer serving the RV park. So, it really doesn't matter what the hot to hot leg voltage is, so long as the hot legs to ground or neutral is 120 volts.
Full disclosure... I am NOT an electrician by trade but I do have a good working knowledge of the subject.

Interesting sticker... Never seen one on a RV (I'm sure there are many) but when I think about it, it makes perfect sense! The 208Y refers to a 3Ph (Y-tapped) transformer where voltage between any 2 hot legs is 208 volts (vs 240 for normal single phase or a delta tapped transformer).

If I built a new RV park, I would have to consider a 3 phase distribution system as I would have one more hot leg to utilize. This takes into consideration that 99% of RV's do not have a 240V load. Even if someone had a 240V clothes dryer, to would run on 208V just fine, but the amperage would be up a little. In any case all 3 legs to ground would be 120V.

I do have a 50A service in my older Montana, but I did not want to lug the 30' 50A cord around where almost none of the parks we regularly stay at have 50A connections. I did have an extra 30A cord laying around, so what I did was make that up with a 50A female end (camper end) and installed a jumper to feed both hot legs inside of that cord end. Essentially, it's a 30A RV male end and a 50A RV female. Has worked just fine for 2 years now. Of course I realize I cannot run both of my A/C units (opposite legs in the panel when hooked up to 50A) at the same time when I am hooked with my 30A cord.

If you put something like that together, you are getting the same result as the adapter, but the park management would not be aware of what is going on.

If I were the park owner and had some concern with the amount of power being used taxing my system, I would simply replace the 30A breakers with 25's, or even 20's so that people could utilize the 30A configuration, but not tax my system. I would make the customers aware of this, and not charge for 30A if I were not providing it.

Very good discussion here!
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Old 06-21-2018, 10:42 AM   #42
Denny and Angie Miller
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Originally Posted by BB_TX View Post
I, for one, am a skeptic. His reasoning just does not make sense to me. I do agree with his statement that if you have a 50 amp rig you should plug into the 50 amp outlet if available. But I know of no reason to do otherwise. Beyond that I do not agree on many things.

A 30 amp outlet is designed to safely and adequately carry 30 amps. And that outlet is protected by a 30 amp breaker to ensure it does not carry more than the rating. And if properly wired should not overheat.

Yes, a 50 amp rig is capable of pulling 3 times more power than a 30 amp rig, IF it is plugged into a 50 amp outlet. But plugged into a 30 amp outlet using an adapter it is limited to 30 amps. Just like a 30 amp rig.

I have no idea why he thinks a 50 amp rig that is limited by a 30 amp breaker is going to “pull down” everyone’s power. And that it is like 3 RVs suddenly plugging in. 30 amps is 30 amps no matter what the RV.

If the park outlet is in poor condition, yes, it can overheat. If the wiring is undersized or improperly wired, it can overheat. If the breaker is poor quality and trips at higher amps than design, it can overheat. But these conditions can exist on a 30 amp RV running at max power.

If I am wrong I certainly welcome anyone to correct my thinking.
Everything you said is correct, but everyone needs to understand that circuit breakers are meant to trip on over current, and don't last forever. Each time a breaker trips it's performance is degraded, and can actually start tripping at a lower or even higher amperage, then the condition can snowball, until the next weakest link in the amperage chain gives...that might be breakers on your rig, or their receptacle. Point is, if enough 50 amp people rely on the park 30 amp breaker to trip, you are actually doing damage to the park equipment however unintentional. I do agree with others in choosing not to spend my $$$ at a park that limits me to 30 amps. As others have pointed out, so many units now have 50 amp connections that RV parks are going to have to upgrade their 30 amp pedestals if they want to stay competitive.
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Old 06-21-2018, 11:55 AM   #43
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We ask for 50 amps pull through, full hookups when on the road and will not do anything less except in a emergency.This Montana has all the good stuff and we use all of it. We did have to use 30 amps on our way home from Florida as our EMS PT 50C saw low voltage on one leg would not connect to the Montana and there was not another site available.

Most camp ground owners and folks that work there are Not electrical experts. Many C'Gs went out of business because the cost to upgrade electrical and sewer systems were to great.
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Old 06-21-2018, 04:40 PM   #44
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Campsite Receptacles

Another reason the campsite receptacle could be "smoked" or discoloured is that campers will plug their power cord into their RV first, then into the campsite receptacle with the breaker in the "ON" position. This can often cause sparking at the plug prongs and receptacle face, neither one a good thing.

I always make sure the circuit breaker is OFF before I plug in my power cord, 30A or 50A. Only when I'm plugged in at both ends do I turn the breaker ON.

Same thing when disconnecting. Turn the breaker OFF first, then disconnect the power cord.
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Old 06-22-2018, 05:52 AM   #45
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Hi

There is a misconception among the RV group.

The 50 units use a standard 240V hookup. When you power 2 loads in the RV on opposite legs you are actually using the 240V circuit of the power system.

If you were to build a box with 3 amp meters mounted and run line 1 to one and line 2 to the second one and the neutral to the third one.

When you turned the first 20 amp load on line 1 the amp meter for line 1 and the amp meter for the natural will read 20 amps.

Then when you turn the second 20 amp load on line 2 you will read 20 amps on line 1 and 20 amps on line 2 and 0 amps on the natural.

The neutral only carries load when the loads are unbalanced.

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Old 06-25-2018, 06:57 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by whutfles View Post
. I have 2 hot legs of 120V @ 50 amps each so, yes I have 50 amps X 120 volts = 6000 watts X 2 = 12000 watts. But each receptacle and appliance in my RV is only connected to one hot leg or 120V. There are no receptacles or appliances connected to both hot legs as in a 240 V application.

I think this site explained it well:
http://www.myrv.us/electric/Pg/50amp_Service.htm
No, you have you have two hot legs of 30 and 30 amps for 50 total. Check your tandem breaker. Unless it's been modified I'll bet you that it is a 20/30 amp breaker. The 20 will run the AC units. the 30 runs to the subpanel and runs everything else.
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Old 06-25-2018, 07:05 PM   #47
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Your dealer is correct and your description is accurate. Nothing is 240V in our rigs, but there are two 120V 50A busses; 6KW each.
So you're saying your main breakers are a tandem 50? All I've ever seen is a 20/30. You have a 30 amp buss and a 20 amp bus.
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Old 06-25-2018, 07:13 PM   #48
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I think that would be a great idea. Getting another perspective would be great. I'd like to go back to the owner of that campground and show them something that says they are all wet.

To clarify further, they do have 50amp sites available, and that's what we are staying in, but I've stayed in multiple 30amp sites with out a problem. I still think they have had failures in the past from old, worn out plugs/breakers and are now gun shy.

Working on it now. Here's an example of the type of article I'm currently publishing on RVtravel.com about RV hookups. I'm going to publish something similar covering the 30/50-amp adapter ban issue. https://rvtravel.com/electricity5-2/
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Old 06-25-2018, 08:39 PM   #49
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So you're saying your main breakers are a tandem 50? All I've ever seen is a 20/30. You have a 30 amp buss and a 20 amp bus.
For 50 amp hookup, the park breaker is a 50 amp two pole linked (tandem) breaker. And the main breaker in the trailer is the same.
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Old 06-25-2018, 09:47 PM   #50
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I'm not the electrician here. But this thread started out by numerous posts saying 50 amp was (50A X 120V = 6000W) X 2 = 12,000W. And now you're saying we have a 20A/30A breaker. That would be (20A X 120V = 2400W)+ (30A X 120V = 3600W) = 6,000W. If that is the case, then what is the campground providing at the pedestal, 30A in each hot leg or 50A?

So when you use a 50-30A adapter, does it split it up 15A to each hot leg of my power chord or does it just send 30A down one leg of the power chord and then it gets split up somehow at my breaker?

I'm not at my RV now so can't discuss what breaker I have. My point was that all of my RV's appliances are only 120V.
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Old 06-25-2018, 10:25 PM   #51
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I'm with most of you. I would avoid ANY campground that even hinted that they had a power issue!!! Voting with your $$ is a very good way to influence RV park owners.


And I very much appreciate the heads up on any park with power issues from my fellow campers.


When word gets around about a park and business drops off perhaps that will encourage the current owner to upgrade or sell to someone with the resources to do so?


Good news is that it appears that most of the parks being currently built have wised up and understand that building large rig compatible is the only way to go.....
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Old 06-26-2018, 05:07 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by whutfles View Post
Ok, my dealer preaches there is no 240V in RV's. Only 120V.

There are no receptacles or appliances connected to both hot legs as in a 240 V application.



Hi

The misconception is the 120V receptacles are connected at the neutral and this cannot be avoided.

When the load on 2 receptacles on opposite legs is balanced there is no load thru the neutral and you are in fact using a 240v circuit.

See the drawing of a standard transformer used in the US.

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Old 06-26-2018, 10:57 AM   #53
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2.4kV?!?!!? where can I get a 2.4kV dryer? talk about poof and clothes are dry!!

Sorry Phil. I could not help it.
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Old 06-26-2018, 06:04 PM   #54
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2.4kV?!?!!? where can I get a 2.4kV dryer? talk about poof and clothes are dry!!
..........
The 2.4kV is what you might expect on the overhead power lines running thru your neighborhood. The transformer in the diagram would be that transformer at the top of the power pole. And the 120/240 wires would be the wiring runnng from that transformer into your house, or to an RV park, or most any other structure using normal line voltages.

Actually the neighborhood power lines can vary by thousands of volts depending on the area and sometimes the age of the system. And those power lines on the tall metal towers? Those are in the hundreds of thousands of voltage, especially the long cross country transmission lines with a few of those reaching a million volts! Those voltages are gradually stepped down as they pass thru multiple substations in their travel to your home.
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Old 06-26-2018, 06:05 PM   #55
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OK, just so you know it can happen to anyone! :-) We had to use our 30 amp to 50 amp dog bone for the first time a month ago or so, and I did not have either air conditioner on because it was in the morning, and was cold, BUT, I did have on the fireplace, refer, water heater, and a small portable heater we have near our bedroom, and then without thinking, because we have been to around 50 parks so far, I turned on the microwave to heat the water for the dogs food, and then pushed the go button on the Kuerig coffee maker, and the microwave, stopped! I thought I blew out the GFI breaker, because it can go out for no reason sometimes. What threw me, is we have never dry camped, and the lights were still on. So we had switched to batteries without me knowing it. So I started to search around, and saw the breaker at the RV camp post had tripped. Duh! So now I don't use the microwave or coffee maker if either the fireplace or small electric heater is on. I did not think about the refer and water heater? How much propane do these two use on a daily basis?
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Old 06-26-2018, 07:48 PM   #56
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OK, just so you know it can happen to anyone! :-) We had to use our 30 amp to 50 amp dog bone for the first time a month ago or so, and I did not have either air conditioner on because it was in the morning, and was cold, BUT, I did have on the fireplace, refer, water heater, and a small portable heater we have near our bedroom, and then without thinking, because we have been to around 50 parks so far, I turned on the microwave to heat the water for the dogs food, and then pushed the go button on the Kuerig coffee maker, and the microwave, stopped! I thought I blew out the GFI breaker, because it can go out for no reason sometimes. What threw me, is we have never dry camped, and the lights were still on. So we had switched to batteries without me knowing it. So I started to search around, and saw the breaker at the RV camp post had tripped. Duh! So now I don't use the microwave or coffee maker if either the fireplace or small electric heater is on. I did not think about the refer and water heater? How much propane do these two use on a daily basis?
We all learned our 30 amp limits just as you did. The propane used depends on how much hot water you make and how many times you open and close the refrig. I guess the short answer is "Not much". If you are on 30amp service switching them to gas is just a good way to save some draw.
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Old 06-26-2018, 08:03 PM   #57
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2.4kV?!?!!? where can I get a 2.4kV dryer? talk about poof and clothes are dry!!

Sorry Phil. I could not help it.

Hi

I see the humor LOL

That’s the power company line voltage. That’s how AC works take a high voltage like that and when you transform it down to 240V you get a lot of amperage while the2.4KV line side would probably be less than 1/2 amp to support a 240v 100 Amp service.

I would have to do some math to see just what the draw of 240v 100 amps service would be for a 2.4KV supply.

By the way all of my post assumes a resistive load only. When you get into reactive, conductive and power factor the numbers do change and I would guess that even if you pulled all the 50 amps on an RV you would still have a small amount on the neutral but not much.

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Old 06-26-2018, 08:50 PM   #58
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just looked at the manual for a 2017 Montana, and i think the amp draw numbers are the start up numbers, and not the continuous draw numbers? Otherwise, if the converter is 10 amps, and each A/C is 15, then that does not leave much left to do anything??? If the water heater can be 10, and then all the lights, and then the microwave? I have never tripped a breaker on 50 amp pedestals, but if you look at the manual, it seems as though I should have blown the circuit many times by now????
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Old 06-26-2018, 09:21 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by vipermanden View Post
just looked at the manual for a 2017 Montana, and i think the amp draw numbers are the start up numbers, and not the continuous draw numbers? Otherwise, if the converter is 10 amps, and each A/C is 15, then that does not leave much left to do anything??? If the water heater can be 10, and then all the lights, and then the microwave? I have never tripped a breaker on 50 amp pedestals, but if you look at the manual, it seems as though I should have blown the circuit many times by now????
Your 50 amp service is actually two 50 amp legs or 100 amps. 50 amp service has over triple the power of 30 amp.
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Old 06-26-2018, 09:36 PM   #60
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......
I have never tripped a breaker on 50 amp pedestals, but if you look at the manual, it seems as though I should have blown the circuit many times by now????
As noted above, you have the ability to pull up to 50 amps from hot leg 1 and also 50 amps from hot leg 2. Each hot leg is supplied from one pole of a 50 amp two pole linked (tandem) circuit breaker. The 120 vac devices in your trailer are distributed so that some are wired to one leg and the rest to the other. Most likely you have one A/C wired to each leg. Under the conditions you describe, you might be pulling 30 amps or more from each leg. But you would still be a long way from tripping the 50 amp breaker. You would have to pull more than 50 amps from one of those legs to trip that breaker.
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