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Old 08-28-2019, 06:13 PM   #1
seancath
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Design flaw!!! You need to check k your rig...risk of death/fire

Take this seriously.

We have a brand new 2019 3761FL and noticed that our electrical system has been acting weird. GFI tripping, ‘hot skin’ during a rain storm, and sparks coming out from the bottom/rear of the rig.

Climbed underneath (after turning everything off/cutting power) and found that Keystone ran all power between (at least I’m in spot) between the sun flooring and the steel crossbeam. The vibration driving of course wore down the insulation around our 240/120 wire and actually burnt a hole in the crossbeam.

Huge issue!!! I would strongly suggest that you have your rig checked out. We have mobile mechanics coming out to fix it as we are 9 hours from home. But it is going into the shop immediately.

We have contacted Keystone and filed a ‘claim’’. I am hopeful that they are going to review our rig and where it was manufactured. This should be a recall!!
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Old 08-28-2019, 07:19 PM   #2
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So ,if I'm reading and looking at your pics , your first pic is upside down ? In that the wires are between the subfloor and the steel joist/crossbeam ?.
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Old 08-28-2019, 07:25 PM   #3
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Not good! But like so many posts here. All we can do is be vigilant and watch for this type of problem.
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Old 08-28-2019, 07:32 PM   #4
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Wasn’t there a recent recall for that?
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Old 08-28-2019, 08:19 PM   #5
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Yes. Pic loaded upside down.
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Old 08-28-2019, 09:06 PM   #6
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More of that Amish craftsmanship they brag about. That shows no common sense, should not need training or to be told about something like that! Maybe they should hire kids out of tech school and let the craftsmen concentrate on cows.
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Old 08-28-2019, 09:14 PM   #7
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Certainly a sloppy install.
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Old 08-29-2019, 05:49 AM   #8
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More of that Amish craftsmanship they brag about. That shows no common sense, should not need training or to be told about something like that! Maybe they should hire kids out of tech school and let the craftsmen concentrate on cows.
A bit harsh don't you think?
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Old 08-29-2019, 07:18 AM   #9
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A bit harsh don't you think?
Harsh, not hardly, I'd say more than generous given the sloppy work shown.
When I think of an Amish craftsman I visualize a bearded man in an apron with a wood mallet in his hand putting quality ahead of anything else. This man certainly does not work in the RV industry! I'm not sure I'd even want these factory workers taking care of my cows (if I had any)!
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Old 08-29-2019, 07:41 AM   #10
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"Amish" is just a marketing word to gaslight you into thinking it is somehow better. Craftsmen or craftswomen are just that. There are good ones and bad ones. The pix is evidence of a bad one. Or, at the least one that had a bad day at the office.
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Old 08-29-2019, 08:34 AM   #11
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Harsh, not hardly, I'd say more than generous given the sloppy work shown.
When I think of an Amish craftsman I visualize a bearded man in an apron with a wood mallet in his hand putting quality ahead of anything else. This man certainly does not work in the RV industry! I'm not sure I'd even want these factory workers taking care of my cows (if I had any)!
You might want to tour the factory and take a look at those Amish craftsmen. They do what they are told to do and how to do it.It is a assembly line there is little time for craftsmen ship on a assembly line.
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Old 08-29-2019, 08:51 AM   #12
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You might want to tour the factory and take a look at those Amish craftsmen. They do what they are told to do and how to do it.It is a assembly line there is little time for craftsmen ship on a assembly line.
The time factor is theirs. They are in a rush to get back to the farm. A true craftsman would correct noticed problems and errors. Doubt anyone was told to put wiring that way, it was done the fastest way without any thought process involved. Also no pride. Factories should no longer call the workers craftsmen but call them farmers or unskilled labor in a rush to do other things.
I lived for years in PA Amish country. Those craftsmen would refuse to put out a product that they were not proud of. There were also those that only wanted to make money, these are the ones in ALL RV factories.
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Old 08-29-2019, 08:52 AM   #13
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When the RV industry took off again they had to hire whomever they could. Not all Amish anymore.
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Old 08-29-2019, 08:55 AM   #14
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Bottom line is this is a bonehead install. I can't imagine that Keystone would have approved had they known...too much liability. Let's just hope it's not the standard or repeated in other builds that day.

Where exactly are the pics taken? How did you gain access?
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Old 08-29-2019, 08:57 AM   #15
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True and as I said above, just breathing qualifies. No Ned for drug or background checks. No need for any skill set. If this is what we can expect from Montana we may as well save the premium.
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Old 08-29-2019, 09:29 AM   #16
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Just behind the drivers side leveling leg. It’s the first cross beam that is forward the grey tank. Had to cut the underbelly.
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Old 08-29-2019, 10:10 AM   #17
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The time factor is theirs. They are in a rush to get back to the farm. A true craftsman would correct noticed problems and errors. Doubt anyone was told to put wiring that way, it was done the fastest way without any thought process involved. Also no pride. Factories should no longer call the workers craftsmen but call them farmers or unskilled labor in a rush to do other things.
I lived for years in PA Amish country. Those craftsmen would refuse to put out a product that they were not proud of. There were also those that only wanted to make money, these are the ones in ALL RV factories.
We also lived in PA Amish country and the Amish built both our storage sheds here in Ohio. The RV factories are assembly lines .The time factor is not theirs. They build to manufacturers standards and follow manufacturer rules. This is not the Amish producing a product this is a RV manufacturer building a product using Amish and other workforce. BTW a large number of the workforce are not Amish at all.
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Old 08-29-2019, 12:01 PM   #18
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My point is, that these are not the craftsmen that Montana and others in the RV business claim to be building their trailers. Really has nothing to do with being Amish. There are few true craftsmen left due to our desire to purchase everything as inexpensively as possible and then complain about the cheapness. These are unskilled workers doing , as richfaa says, just following directions. Could be any ethnic group. When I vas very young my dad ,who was a machinist instilled this moto into me "quality before quantity" I try my best to follow his example!
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Old 08-31-2019, 05:49 AM   #19
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As Dick said RV industry took off and the Amish workforce was diluted. Elkhart/Goshen unemployment rate is 2.8%. With unemployment that low there are jobs to be had, just need a pulse. Bashing a group of people for things they may not be responsible for is not right
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Old 08-31-2019, 08:48 AM   #20
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Agree, bad rapping an entire group over the actions of a few isn’t right.
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