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Old 01-11-2008, 02:01 AM   #1
nailbender
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New Texas Laws?

I found this on the Escapee Forum. Has anybody heard about this or have other information about it?


I just found out something very interesting that I thought I would share with the group. In the state of Texas, and supposedly every other state for that matter, Highway Patrol officers and the equivalent thereof, are being sent thru a very rigorous training for DOT inspection, weights and measures, and drivers lisc. laws as they pertain to weight. I have a very good friend who just finished his second leg of (3) two week training sessions that last 5 days at 9 hours per day. He explained to me that they are receiving data on different brands of trailers, weights, etc. He said the first two week session was nothing more than data on the LDT, MDT, and HDT trucks themselves. They had to learn exactly how to find things like GVWR, GCWR, etc on ANY vehicle. They are going to be equipped with portable scales, etc. They are being trained on the type scan systems like the UPS drivers carry and you sign your citation with a stylist pencil and it prints your ticket. The citation is registered with the next closest available port of entry to the bordering states....!!!!!! Every port of entry will be tied to a national data base that will show any citation you have received in the last so many days, weeks, etc. He explained to me that there has been a gross influx of RV, horse, and motorsports trailers in the last 5 years, and the general introduction to this training cited this as the reason. He said they were shown DMV & insurance data that an accident in the state of Texas was 6 times more likely to involve a trailer than just that of 3 years ago. (That fact in itself, is blowing away my weak mind). He explained that folks with air brakes WERE going to be tested at the point of contact if there is a question as far as drivers lisc. issue. (My weak mind is only assuming that an air brake truck, or the MDT/HDTs, are less likely to get pulled over because they have less chance of being overloaded). They are being trained in the "on-site, multi-point, DOT inspection that requires an officer to crawl under a truck, etc...He explained to me that not every officer had even been informed but they were all going to school in 2008.
 
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Old 01-11-2008, 02:17 AM   #2
bncinwv
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I cannot imagine this being true in West Virginia simply because it is two different worlds with respect to enforcement. Weight violations and enforcement fall under the Public Service Commission and not under any police jurisdiction that I am aware of. I am curious as to whether this can be substantiated or is just rumor mill??
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Old 01-11-2008, 02:31 AM   #3
nailbender
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Bingo, This a active topic on the Escapee Forum in the MDT section titled "Welcome to the new world". Check it out, a lot of opinions.
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Old 01-11-2008, 03:16 AM   #4
mail2us
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How does this training of Highway Patrol officers affect RV industry? or does it at all? Is not the training tied to homeland security issues and not just the traditional regulation aspects? Dennis
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Old 01-11-2008, 03:34 AM   #5
BB_TX
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The statement about increased frequency of truck/trailer accidents does not say anything about weight. But if they have hard data to show that overloaded truck/trailer combinations are causing more frequent accidents, then I think it is a great idea.
If nothing else, it should put pressure on salesmen to stop saying "You can pull anything on the lot with that 1/2 ton". Could easily open them up to major liability issues.
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Old 01-11-2008, 04:28 AM   #6
ggranch
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As always, the onus is on the operator to be in compliance. The salesman's job is to move trailers. If the story is true, it would behove anyone pulling in or through Texas to be properly licensed, insured, and inside the limits of the TV. If you are "home state" legal, you will be legal anywhere. These are things that should be done anyway but we all (or most of us) have been guilty of pushing the envelope. I used to pull a 23' Jayco with a V-6 Explorer. Legal but dumb. Bob
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Old 01-11-2008, 05:02 AM   #7
richfaa
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In Ohio the "weight police" are a division of the Ohio State Patrol. I have been told by the "weight police" and the State patrol that rv's are not subject to or targeted for weight violations. However,If stopped for any type of violation or a routine safety check you are fair game for anything including improper hitching, improper equipment, over weight. We have never been through a safety inspection but have seen RV's being inspected at rest areas on the interstates at safety checks. We choose not to take the chance..
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Old 01-11-2008, 10:54 AM   #8
MacDR50
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All the truck manufacturers have calculators for determining which truck you need to tow a given load. If a salesman fails to mention this service he is asking for a negligence or misrepresentation claim. If they make the offer and you decline or ignore the results then it's your problem. Any dealership that says "It's your problem" after allowing a salesperson to tell a customer that a 1/2 ton p/u can safely tow a 15,000# trailer should be sued into bankrupcy. What kind of jerk would risk people's life and limb for a few $'s of commission. Caveat Emptor is finally giving way to more enlightened consumer protection both in statute and case law. "Take the money and run" is now seen as a bad business practise and, in the case of product liability, may be a quick ride to punishing civil and even criminal liability.
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Old 01-11-2008, 11:01 AM   #9
SlickWillie
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I've seen them using the portable scales for several years in East TX. Never saw an RV pulled into one though.
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Old 01-11-2008, 11:18 AM   #10
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Just went through a bit of a scare here -- a coworker came back after the holidays advising myself and my boss that "as of the 1st of January - we all have to have CDLs to pull our trailers". Reason -- the Kansas law says that you must have a CDL if you drive a truck with GVWR that is over 26000 pounds, a combined rig that has a GCWR of over 26000 pounds, or (and this is what gets us), pull a trailer that has a weight of over 10000 pounds (from the KS web site "if the GVWR of the vehicle or vehicles being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds"). I called the drivers license office and they told me that does not apply to recreational vehicles. Stopped by the local county Registrar's office where we pay our annual property taxes and get our plates each year and asked them again. They (several of the ladies working there), did some research, called Topeka, and came back and told me it didn't apply to Recreation Vehicles (RVs). It was meant for things like flat bed trailers, horse trailers, etc... I asked them where it said that specifically and they couldn't show it to me. So -- where does that leave me (and others licensed in Kansas)??? I don't have a real answer but it is in writing in several places (the printed CDL manual says it the same way as the web site) so .......
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Old 01-11-2008, 12:55 PM   #11
richfaa
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I do have a CDL and above sounds like the rules for the CDL which applies to commercial vehicles. Now many states do issue a "RV endorsement" that follows the CDL requirements in many cases..But these are NOT CDL's and do not apply to commercial vehicles.The CDL like I and many drivers have is a attachment to my Ohio license and is good in all States. If I would decide to move to another state and get a drivers license in that state. I would NOT have to take another CDL exam. The CDL portion would follow onto my new State license. There is a lot of confusion and miss understanding on exactly what a CDL is and under what circumstances they are required. The CDL is a Federal mandated minimum standard regulation that drivers must have to haul Commerical..The above co-worker may have confused 'Federal law" with "Kansas Law" Which of course would be Kansas law as well as Ohio law,etc...
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Old 01-11-2008, 01:32 PM   #12
firetrucker
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Nevada requires a noncommercial class A license to pull a trailer over 10 000 pounds with a GCWR over 26 000 pounds. It requires a class B to drive a vehicle over 26 000 pounds, and limits a trailer to less than 10 000 pounds. I've had a class B for years for the fire department, but was in noncompliance when I got the Montana. Didn't really bother me for a while; figured maybe I could talk my way out of any encounter. Decided last year that that wasn't the best approach and upgraded to a class A.

In Nevada, the CDL is only required when you drive any class A, B, and certain class C vehicles involved in commerce. I think this is true in most states, but not all by any means.

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Old 01-11-2008, 02:01 PM   #13
hookman
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I think a lot of people have to wake up and smell the roses. The weights of trailers are always going up and people are not buying adequate trucks so the appropriate authority will start nailing people for overweight vehicles. I BC a person was pulled over for over weight and had to leave his wife at the side of the road until he took his camper home and unloaded it. After a certain weight we need an endorsement on our license.
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Old 01-11-2008, 04:20 PM   #14
Waynem
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In the original post it states, "in the State of Texas." DPS is trained in weights and do enforce the regulations. They have specifically assigned DPS officers to watch for and enforce the regulations on commercial vehicles. I personally know a DPS officer who has had that job here in the Galveston County area. Now to say that every single DPS officer gets concise training in that regimen, I don't know, but those assigned to that specific duty sure do.

In Texas, commercially, the same law applies as stated in Kansas. A trailer with a GVW of 10000 pounds or more requires a CDL. Not required for RV's. Commercially, a vehicle with air brakes requires an air brake endorsement. I do not know if that is required for RV's.

From 1986 through 1994 I drove with a CDL for commercial/private. I was never stopped, but I was checked, and very thoroughly, at a California check point. As previously stated, if you get stopped for a violation of any type, be prepared for a complete check out.
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Old 01-12-2008, 02:30 AM   #15
richfaa
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Again.. The CDL (Commerical drivers license) is required to haul commerical in ALL states. It is a Federal Mandated set of Minimum regulations..'The commerical Motor Vehicle act of 1986" http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registratio...ng/cdl/cdl.htm. It is not a Ohio, Kansas, Texas Etc law. It is a Federal law administered by each State. A state RV endoresment, no matter what they call it is Not a CDL that meets the Federal standards. The State RV rules that we have reviewed will follow the Fed requirements BUT will add a stand alone requirement that applies only to Rv's and will negate the Fed CDL.They want you to spend the money on the State RV requirement since it is a state money maker.
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Old 01-12-2008, 02:48 AM   #16
Wiarton William
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In Ontario Canada...we have had those inspectors for several years...they will do an inspection on an RV IF it looks like it should be checked...normally they dont bother(if it looks as if the operator doesnt conform to the rules of safety or appearance).. the weight ratings are on the Drivers licences as far as what yu can tow or haul but RV's are not included in those weight calculations...there is a movement afoot to simplify and qualify the standards for the RV's but it hasnt come out yet.. as far as the legality goes "If you are legal in your home state(Province) you are legal everywhere"
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Old 01-12-2008, 05:02 AM   #17
Joe-n-Doe
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Based on what I have read on the different forums, 30 plus years in law enforcement, and one who does a heck of a lot of driving my sense is these enforcement initiatives are intended to bring RVers into compliance with state registration regulations and laws and at the same time generate revenue. They can be implemented with little or no additional training and/or equipment and can be conducted without clogging up Ports of Entries at state borders or weigh stations within the states with RVs.

State Officers can conduct registration checks of RVs at Rest Stops or through random vehicle stops. They need only ask to inspect the vehicle registration to quickly determine if the TV has been properly registered to tow the weight of its’ TT or 5er. For example, you drive a 1 ton p/u with a GVW of 6900# and your towing a 5er rated at 12,000#, your vehicle registration should reflect a minimum GVW of appx 19,000#. You pull into a rest stop and are approached by a State Trooper who asks to see your vehicle registration. If all the registration reflects is a GVW of 6900#, the officer immediately knows he has a violation. No scales are required to make that determination. To estimate your true GVW, all the Trooper needs to do is inspect the data plate on the exterior of your 5er or the data sticker inside one of your cabinets inside the trailer (if it was me, I would be inside your rig in a heartbeat…no telling what else I might find). During all this the Officer is performing a non-intrusive visual inspection of your rig looking for potential safety issues (you know kinda like you do when you pass by another 5er). If the Officer sees something amiss, he/she just extends their inspection and if necessary restricts further movement of the rig until needed violations are fixed. It is going to take him longer to write a citation than to detect a violation.

Once again this is just my spin on whats behind the reports of these intensified enforcement actions.
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Old 01-12-2008, 05:22 AM   #18
Emmel
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heh Joe, you are starting to confuse me with the 6900gvw and the 19000gvw, where does the gcvw come in to play?
Also, if you look at the new super dutys and heavy dutys, the gcvw is at 25,900 keeping them under the 26000 lbs that require a CDL.
Ford at one time boasted a GCVW of 26000 lbs and wisely retracted the weight to 25900 so there was no need for comercial plates on the truck itself.
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Old 01-12-2008, 08:34 AM   #19
richfaa
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That is a good informational post Joe... and again..if you are NOT hauling commercial you do not need a CDL. In Ohio we have no indications on our license or registration as to what our tow rating is...I am in full support of the states or the Fed's regulating the RV's same as the commercial haulers as we refuse to regulate ourselves.. Unlike some who maintain that Rv'ers are among the safest of drivers I think they are among the worst and at least half if not more are running over weight. We do a lot of over the road time between RV'ing and bus driving and personally I keep a good distance between me and other RV's.I know, I know..were is the documentaion...Since there is no regulation or enforcement of Rv's there is no documentation as with the Commercial trucking industry. I am sure the various insurance companies keep data of Rv claims which may be the reason for the push for more regulation. By ignoring manufacturers specs and the we been doing it for years with no problem attitude we will find ourselves regulated then wonder how it happened.
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Old 01-12-2008, 09:22 AM   #20
Joe-n-Doe
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Steve,

When I last registered our TV the took the curb weight and added the trailer weight to come up with what is referred on the registration as GVW. (1+1=2)

Total curb weight of both conveyances don't/won't necessarily equal the Combined Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GCWR). Curb weight of both conveyances can be less or greater than the CGVWR.

If an LEO looks at your registration and the weight reflected is just your curb weight and yet you are towing a 5er, also registered to you (1+0=1), you have committed a violation and are subject to be fined for operating an improperly registered vehicle.

The point I was attempting to make is that states entertaining implementing these types of enforcement initiatives perceive detection of improperly registered RVs as an easy and lucrative (albeit short term) source of previously untapped revenue. The Officers/Managers suggesting these operations must have documentation supporting their speculation of widespread registration violations by the RV community. It wouldn't take much to generate a spreadsheet reflecting registered weights of vehicles capable of towing/hauling RVs and cross referencing that list against the number of towable RVs registered in that state.

It only takes seconds for an LEO to determine if an RV is properly registered (1+0=1). No special training or equipment is required. However, determining if a rig exceeds it's CGVWR or is improperly loaded is more labor intensive, time consuming, and requires a scale and special skills. For that reason, if states are going to engage in these special enforcement operations I see them initially focusing on registration violations.

The issue of requiring RVers to obtain CDLs is a different issue.





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