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Old 05-28-2011, 01:22 PM   #21
SlickWillie
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quote:Originally posted by Carl n Susan

From what I have heard and seen, the factory wouldn't fix a defective cap, they just install a different one and scrap the one with flaws. I highly suspect the damage occurred later down the supply chain and someone had it repaired and doesn't want to disclose it. I doubt the transporter had the time or resources so that leaves the dealer. I would be working with the Montana service desk in Goshen to identify the problem and possible solutions.
I was thinking the same. I'm not sure it is cost effective for the factory to try to repair a hole in the fiberglass, when they have a new one to replace it. With the unit being sold as new, I do think Keystone needs to step up to the plate and at least find what happened.
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Old 05-28-2011, 06:17 PM   #22
BrokenElbow
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If you are referring to the roughly rectangular area parallel to the shadow that runs along the bottom side of the front cap in your picture, then I can see it. I would pursue it. Call the factory first and see what kind of response you get. I wouldn't trust the dealers report on what the factory said.
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Old 05-28-2011, 11:32 PM   #23
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quote:Originally posted by BrokenElbow

If you are referring to the roughly rectangular area parallel to the shadow that runs along the bottom side of the front cap in your picture, then I can see it. I would pursue it. Call the factory first and see what kind of response you get. I wouldn't trust the dealers report on what the factory said.
Thank you, Finally someone was able to see from the picture what Im talking about !
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Old 05-29-2011, 02:21 AM   #24
HamRad
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Jliveit,
I can see (although it is very difficult) some of the stuff you're talking about. I cannot imagine the factory letting that get out the door! But will believe anything can happen. It is just that I'm sure that damage is more obvious in person. I'm surprised you didn't catch this in your "walk through" process. It should have been caught there if it is as obvious as it appears. This is something that the Keystone factory would NOT have let get by them.

But regardless of where the blame may lie..... if the rig is still under warranty then they should step up and take responsibility. And the fix should be a new front cap. That would be the fastest and most efficient method for them ...... OR at least that is what we have been told by some who have had need of such repairs.

Good luck and keep us up to date with how things go. HamRad
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Old 05-29-2011, 02:49 AM   #25
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Well this flat spot/indentation is easier to see at times than others and temperature has something to do with it but can allways be felt. And as to the 2 spots up by the mountaineer decal they can be seen and photographed but when I upload they can not unless you know what to look for. Just kinda makes me sick having waited this long and can not get a answer other than its not life threating or doesn't leak !
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Old 05-29-2011, 05:20 AM   #26
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I would call the service center and have them read to you, the exact wording they have in their database regarding the 'call' from the dealer. Don't take the dealers word for it about what transpired or even that they called at all. Every call to the service center is logged in a database by VIN.

Here's how it might go down...

"Hello Keystone?"

"Yes, this is the Keystone service center."

"This is Joe's Midnight RV Sales. Do you guys replace damaged front caps when a customer discovers damage?"

"Well no. The damage could have been caused by road hazard."

"Yeah. Well that's what I thought but I just thought I'd check."

"Thank you for calling."


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Old 05-29-2011, 06:31 AM   #27
DarMar
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Guess my eyesight is better than I thought! I can clearly see and suspect both areas have had body work done. That would just not be acceptable by me as someone along the chain has not fully disclosed what has happened to this unit. I doubt very much it was on Keystone's watch, keep the pressure on.
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Old 05-29-2011, 07:18 AM   #28
8.1al
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I have been on several Montana tours and have looked at units that were tagged for cosmetic repairs. In most cases I had a real hard time finding the problem, which makes it hard for me to believe your unit left the factory like that. The dealer Montana's eyes in the field and depends on them to diagnose problems, however I would be talking to Montana to make sure the dealer is properly handling your problem
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Old 05-30-2011, 04:29 AM   #29
richfaa
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I am with Charlie..We see the units at that last station with red tags all over them some in places were we can see no issue. It would be hard to overlook the indicated defects. Need to unearth the real story .
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Old 05-30-2011, 11:39 AM   #30
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A squeeky wheel will eventually get greased. Keep after them.
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Old 06-10-2011, 04:17 PM   #31
jliveit
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Well I finally gave up on the dealer and called Keystone and they had me send pictures as they had never been contacted by the dealer. Yet dealer has been telling me he was working with the factory and just could not get a answer. They called today and are sending me to a body shop about 30 miles away to get a estimate as to what it will cost and then they will go from there. Still don't think a body shop will be able to do anything with the flat spot in the mold but at least its a start. The lady at Keystone was very polite and got on it very quickly.
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Old 06-10-2011, 04:38 PM   #32
WaltandLynne
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I'm glad to hear that Keystone is willing to work with you on this kind of a problem. Keep the pressure on Keystone and consider not working with this (what sounds like a disreputable) dealer again.

Good luck and please keep us posted.

Walt
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Old 06-10-2011, 06:51 PM   #33
gobears
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[quote]Originally posted by Phil P

Hi

My wife and I had a discussion a week or so ago.

We came to the conclusion that even thought we really like the floor plane and many things about the Montana we will not ever purchase anothe Keystone product or any 5th wheel travel trailer that has Lippert components included in its construction.

Phil P

My wife and I agree with Phil on the Keystone, not so much the Lippert. Our previous 5th wheel was a Cardinal by Forest River, we were seduced at an RV show by the salesman, great trade price and our Teens for the "bunkhouse". It is hard to fathom that almost all these products are made in the same Indiana neighborhood and the quality is so far apart. Oh how we wish for our Cardinal back. This darn thing is in constant repair. trim coming off, decals peeling,cabinet latches, carpet wear from slide outs, fresh water tank leak, black water valve failure, doors don"t close, dinette has been refastened at least 6 times. We owned a travel trailer first, Salem, another Forest River Product. no problems with it either. Keystone must think you don't use it or live outside on the lawn chairs!
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Old 06-10-2011, 07:19 PM   #34
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We have come to a similar conclusion. Keystone has been pretty good at taking care of warranty issues, even some out of warranty issues. But it has just been a constant parade of things going wrong to the point that just returning it to a dealer for repairs has become a PITA by itself. That doesn't count all the stuff I've fixed myself. Very disappointing.
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Old 06-11-2011, 06:29 AM   #35
richfaa
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Then it wasn't really Keystone that was the cause of the frustration but your dealer. When you read this forum and others you note that there are some folks that have all kinds of problems with their unit regardless of brand while the majority of others do not.

Touring the factories, all of them it is hard to understand how one unit can be full of issues the the next not. they are all built the same way by the same workforce using the same vendors and most are within a few miles of one another. That has always puzzled me.
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Old 06-11-2011, 07:02 AM   #36
Emmel
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Rich is right about the units from different manufacturers. Friends in Florida have a very high dollar unit and have more problems with it than most of us combined!
Now getting back to jliveits problem. I'm glad you finally contacted Keystone yourself, that answers my question about your dealer. Make sure the repair shop can repair the unit to your satisfaction and if not, keep after the service center, but be "polite". Polite goes a long way there.
Keep us posted!
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Old 06-11-2011, 08:47 AM   #37
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Richfaa,

I don't understand how you have come to the conclusion that this is a dealer problem?
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Old 06-11-2011, 02:21 PM   #38
richfaa
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'This post by the OP did..

..."Well I finally gave up on the dealer and called Keystone and they had me send pictures as they had never been contacted by the dealer. Yet dealer has been telling me he was working with the factory and just could not get a answer. They called today and are sending me to a body shop about 30 miles away to get a estimate as to what it will cost and then they will go from there. Still don't think a body shop will be able to do anything with the flat spot in the mold but at least its a start. The lady at Keystone was very polite and got on it very quickly.

Works with dealer..Nothing happens... Calls Keystone, finds out dealer never called them and gets instant results..Conclusion...dealer problem.

I Said nothing about the defects but was refering to the fustration in having it addressed.

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Old 06-12-2011, 06:59 PM   #39
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There seems to be a common theme where dealers are not coming clean with their customers about what is transpiring with Keystone. It makes we wonder about what's happening with these dealers. It's like they don't want Keystone involved. Their first approach seems to be to try to get Keystone out of the loop.

My theory is that the disreputable dealer would rather deal one on one with a (perhaps) naive customer in hopes of being able to suck more dough out of the transaction. Once Keystone is involved, the customer has more than one 'expert' to get quotes and advice from. It only has to work every third or fourth time to up your average to a sweet level, eh?

My advice is to never go it alone. Remember, nobody has fixed as many Montanas as the Keystone Service Center. You want them involved! It does the dealer little good to have Keystone pushing on their hourly estimate. If you're Keystone you've most likely done the wizbot doodle repair dozens of time. If you're Joe's Midnight RV in Waldoville Idaho, odds are good that you'll pad an estimate to cover the unknowns.

For my money, you call the service center BEFORE you even go to the dealer. Tell them you want to register your problem. They're happy to record it against your VIN. Then go to the dealer. On your way out of the dealer call the service center again and check out the conversation that happened between the dealer and Keystone.

Be your own quality control inspector!
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Old 06-13-2011, 02:20 AM   #40
Phil P
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Hi

We had many problems with our trailer. It was obvious by the water leaks both pressure and waste, electrical, gas systems inoperative items, and Landing gear and associated systems that the system had never been tested by Keystone or the dealer.

As far as the units being built by different companies in the sane area. When we were there last summer I did some checking. Most of the companies in the area that build these trailers are owned by the same parent company. We could find only one company that wasn’t owned by Thor Industries.

As for the work force. It becomes obvious that Keystone knows the work force is not following their production process when they refuse to send a copy of the wiring diagrams that are ported on the wall of the production facility.

Now for the subject of the dealer.

It was obvious the dealer never even check the inside of the trailer before delivering it to us. The first potable water hookup and the first shower use demonstrated this.

The dealer repairs were “patches” not repairs. The quality of work indicates incompetence.

A comment made by a repairman at a Camping World Keystone dealer that was doing warranty work on our trailer indicated the same thing. His remark was “we are a completion center not a repair facility”

We are now repairing the rotten wood that was the result of the water leaks because the dealer never took the time to dry the unit out in the area behind the wall in the basement.

I have now repaired a lot of the electrical system problems that the dealer was unable to repair.

Because my wife likes this trailer so much I have now contacted a custom builder to build me one just like it.

Phil P
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