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Old 08-15-2018, 09:31 PM   #1
Hwtezrdr
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New Member Needs Advice

My wife and I have about made our decision on a Montana High Country 380 my question is if you go and look up consumer reviews not just Keystone but any MFG of trailers it’s a nightmare would make you not even want to purchase one.

Is this just a few cases out of thousands or they that poorly made, I know you can find bad reviews on about anything. We currently have a Keystone product and have had very few issues in 4 years we have had it. Just wondering it’s scary to spend thousands on something and it not be a good product.
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Old 08-15-2018, 09:59 PM   #2
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We have had a few issues with ours but nothing major. Either I fixed it or took it in to service for warranty work. With that said we LOVE our 3811ms. We bought it new in April 2017 and been full time since October 2017. Over 4500 miles towed in that time. As you already know things can and will go wrong with an RV. After all the roads in America aren't getting any smoother. Good Luck and Have Fun if you decide to go with the purchase of the new Monty. Happy Trails and Blessed Travels to you and yours from Texas.
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Old 08-15-2018, 10:04 PM   #3
mtlakejim
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First, Welcome to the forum. The wife and I own the HC 381TH which is exactly like the 380 but with a residential fridge. Just out of curiosity why did you not go with the residential?


Your right all the complaints you can find online are scary but after researching for a long time and looking at hundreds of coaches we have come to the conclusion that in any given price range all the brands are about the same. After all about 80% of the market is controlled by just two large mother companies (Thor that owns Keystone and Forest River).


If I had it to do over I would order the coach or have the following added and included in the loan so I didn't have to buy it later out of pocket:
Moyride solid steps
A cushion king pin
Hydraulic leveling instead of the problematic electric leveling
G rated Saliun tires (this is not an option get the "china bombs" off the rig immediately---see many posts on this forum regarding the tires!!)
It would also be nice to have Independent suspension and disc brakes but that might break the bank?


We bought the unit for the floor plan and with a 10' deep garage it was the only brand that meet our needs and we could fit our toys in. I won't trade it until they come out with a larger garage on the exact same concept or at least a higher grade version. Or ours gets too old whichever comes first.


Read on here (there is a 380/381 specific thread) for more details on what to look out for on your pre delivery inspection. Don't accept it till the dealer gets ALL of the issues taken care of. One in particular is the cable slide motors on 2018s are known to have an issue with leaking oil on the slide out roofs that has caused bubbling of same. At a bare minimum the motors should have drip pans under them as that is the band aid fix Keystone has come up with so far. Also look for collapsed AC return ducts on your front AC unit (several threads on that issue here). On our model the living room TV needs to raised as high as it can go on the lift as the remote control sensor on the TV is at the very bottom left side and it won't "see" the remote if it is still in the cabinet. Also look for a gap between the front living room window and the front cap. The foam spacers there have been known to slip down on our model and create a significant gap between the inner wall and outer walls. It isn't as big an issue as that sounds, its mostly cosmetic but should be fixed none the less.


I will PM you with some additional information.
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Old 08-15-2018, 10:23 PM   #4
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We have never had a High Country, but our two Montanas have had few problems and Keystone was responsive to those.
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Old 08-15-2018, 11:16 PM   #5
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Overall very happy with our rig - a few minor issues easily taken care of.
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Old 08-16-2018, 04:23 AM   #6
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Welcome to the forum. We are on our 3rd Montana and have not had any problem with them. If you have the ability to fix small things your self you will enjoy your RV. If you have to that it to a dealer for everything then you want enjoy it as much.
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Old 08-16-2018, 08:21 AM   #7
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Welcome! We traded a Crossroads product for our Montana last year. We had a lot of trouble with our previous trailer and very few with this one.

While we were on a long trip recently, we had a mobile RV tech cokme to our campground and attend to a couple of minor issues for us. This guy has over 20 years experience fixing RVs. He is very busy, and we had arranged his visit about a week in advance, knowing where we would be every day. I asked him if any one brand was better than any other brand. He said no, they are all the same (as far as quality is concerned). It used to be different, but not any more.

The problem is that people are buying these things in record numbers and they are pushing them out of the factories as fast as they can. Whether you have minor or major problems is more the luck of the draw than anything. I would suggest you buy based on size, floor plan, amenities, etc., and of course, a price point you are comfortable with.
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Old 08-16-2018, 10:11 AM   #8
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The key thing is a good dealer that does a proper inspection when they get a unit from the factory and fixes all the issues prior to you inspecting and then signing papers. Crappy dealer, crappy unit with issues.
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Old 08-16-2018, 06:34 PM   #9
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The thing about consumer reviews being mostly negative is that misery loves company. Nobody wants to believe they are the only one with problems. Negative comments elicit more emotion and hearing someone else’s misadventures makes them feel better. I can guarantee that if you put “I love my ...”, within a few posts it will turn negative.
It seems people would rather condemn than compliment.
IMHO I think some complaints are blown out of proportion, but that could be based on the individuals ability, or lack there of, to handle repairs. If you own an RV, you should have some mechanical ability. There will always be something to fix. Remember, you are dragging a 7 ton house over all kinds of roads in all kinds of weather. Things happen.
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Old 08-16-2018, 07:21 PM   #10
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We've found that no matter if it is an RV, Boat, no matter how much they cost , none are perfect out the door. It just depends on how we deal with it ...so far we're dealing too.
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Old 08-17-2018, 06:40 AM   #11
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Hi

We and a large number of others not just posting here on this forum but on many forums and people met in travel parks the general conclusion is that the “cookie cutter” RV has problems caused by the production process.

If I were to purchase another fifth wheel from any manufacturer other than a custom builder that would allow me to do the QC inspections I would do the following.

Research the dealer you are purchasing from and make sure he has a service department and properly trained personnel to handle the warranty items you will need addressed.

Don’t believe anything the sales people tell you.

I would not order a unit find what you want on the dealers lot.

The dealer we purchased from did not have any trained service personnel on staff, did not report our list of discrepancies to keystone and did not have a properly staffed parts department or any trained parts personnel.

I blame Keystone for this they apparently do not audit the dealers service department past making sure there is a door with the label “Service Manager” on it.

Phil P
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Old 08-17-2018, 08:14 AM   #12
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Four Montana units, never a High Country. Our units have served us well.
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Old 08-17-2018, 09:28 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil P View Post
Hi

We and a large number of others not just posting here on this forum but on many forums and people met in travel parks the general conclusion is that the “cookie cutter” RV has problems caused by the production process.

If I were to purchase another fifth wheel from any manufacturer other than a custom builder that would allow me to do the QC inspections I would do the following.

Research the dealer you are purchasing from and make sure he has a service department and properly trained personnel to handle the warranty items you will need addressed.

Don’t believe anything the sales people tell you.

I would not order a unit find what you want on the dealers lot.

The dealer we purchased from did not have any trained service personnel on staff, did not report our list of discrepancies to keystone and did not have a properly staffed parts department or any trained parts personnel.

I blame Keystone for this they apparently do not audit the dealers service department past making sure there is a door with the label “Service Manager” on it.

Phil P
My recommendations:
Research the market extensively
Go to shows and dozens of dealers
Select the exact model and options (if any you want)
Obtain bids from MULTIPLE SALES dealers and play them against each other
After at least a couple weeks of negotiations buy from whichever SALES dealer has the lowest price REGUARDLESS OF THEIR SERVICE DEPT
Find a good SERVICE ONLY business to take care of all the repairs and warranty work

This combination assures you get both the best price and best service!! DO NOT RELY ON A SALES DEALER TO HAVE GOOD SERVICE!! It is not their primary focus!!
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Old 08-18-2018, 07:55 AM   #14
Phil P
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtlakejim View Post
My recommendations:
Research the market extensively
Go to shows and dozens of dealers
Select the exact model and options (if any you want)
Obtain bids from MULTIPLE SALES dealers and play them against each other
After at least a couple weeks of negotiations buy from whichever SALES dealer has the lowest price REGUARDLESS OF THEIR SERVICE DEPT
Find a good SERVICE ONLY business to take care of all the repairs and warranty work

This combination assures you get both the best price and best service!! DO NOT RELY ON A SALES DEALER TO HAVE GOOD SERVICE!! It is not their primary focus!!

Hi

Keystone would not allow any dealer except the selling dealer to do the warranty work on our Montana.

Phil P
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Old 08-18-2018, 08:07 AM   #15
1retired06
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That was not the case for us. On the road, keystone recommended and helped set appointment with a different dealer. We have found a majority of dealers will not do warranty work if they were not the seller.
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Old 08-18-2018, 10:13 AM   #16
waynemoore
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I bought my rig in Michigan because of the price. But they have a terrible service department because of the rotating service managers. For some reason they can't keep one? The service manager sets the culture of the service department.
If you keep changing management the service techs keep getting conflicting guidance.
Ok sorry back to the point. I live in AZ and we have a great Montana dealer here in Lake Havasu who will do warranty work on any Keystone rig. They took mine in and fixed a black tank valve and did it in two days. So they are out there and will work with Keystone to get things done.
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Old 08-18-2018, 10:23 AM   #17
mtlakejim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil P View Post
Hi

Keystone would not allow any dealer except the selling dealer to do the warranty work on our Montana.

Phil P
Keystone told me any dealer selling their unit could do warranty work AND service only businesses could be approved to do so. That’s straight from the mouth of a Keystone Service manager. She also indicated that Keystone WANTS to add service only businesses to their approved repair shop list
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Old 08-18-2018, 10:26 AM   #18
mtlakejim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil P View Post
Hi

Keystone would not allow any dealer except the selling dealer to do the warranty work on our Montana.

Phil P
I very specifically asked Keystone about warranty repairs and they said no dealer should refuse even if was not where you bought it

It’s sorta like buying a Ford truck. Any Ford dealer will work on them or should
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Old 08-19-2018, 08:43 AM   #19
Phil P
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Hi

Keystone stopped Camping World from doing the warranty work by just refusing to approve it the trailer was 90 days old at that time. Camping World told me Keystone said to take it back to the selling dealer.

A year later I talked to Mr. Holmes about my problem he told me he would get it taken care of. He had one of his lackeys call me and tell me Keystone would not help. His comments to me was just to get ride if me at the Tampa RV Show.

I called Keystone within the last year needing some information from the build ticket I was told they no longer give that information over the phone the dealers had Internet access to the information and gave me a phone number for a dealer in Indiana. When I called the dealer and told them what I wanted they said I would have to wait because they had to contact Keystone by email. When I said Keystone said they had Internet access the lady said "Keystone is lying again we have never had Internet access" and hung up.

I will no longer accept anything Keystone tells you or anyone over the phone the information I have gotten over the phone has always been incorrect or an outright lie.

Why do you think they don’t respond to or respond by phone when you contact them by the email address? They don’t want a recorded of what that says like you would have in an email conversation.

Phil P
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Old 08-19-2018, 09:09 AM   #20
mtlakejim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil P View Post
Hi

Keystone stopped Camping World from doing the warranty work by just refusing to approve it the trailer was 90 days old at that time. Camping World told me Keystone said to take it back to the selling dealer.

A year later I talked to Mr. Holmes about my problem he told me he would get it taken care of. He had one of his lackeys call me and tell me Keystone would not help. His comments to me was just to get ride if me at the Tampa RV Show.

I called Keystone within the last year needing some information from the build ticket I was told they no longer give that information over the phone the dealers had Internet access to the information and gave me a phone number for a dealer in Indiana. When I called the dealer and told them what I wanted they said I would have to wait because they had to contact Keystone by email. When I said Keystone said they had Internet access the lady said "Keystone is lying again we have never had Internet access" and hung up.

I will no longer accept anything Keystone tells you or anyone over the phone the information I have gotten over the phone has always been incorrect or an outright lie.

Why do you think they don’t respond to or respond by phone when you contact them by the email address? They don’t want a recorded of what that says like you would have in an email conversation.

Phil P
I trust you about 1000% more than Keystone. And sadly I’m not surprised at the run around you got or the band aid fixes we are seeing. As for myself, I’m going to take my unit to someone I TRUST to do a good job and if Keystone won’t pony up I’ll pay for it myself!! Most of the work I ca do myself anyway.



This issue is one reason our next RV may well be SOB. Granted it will cost us a LOT more. At the price point Thor is about on par quality wise and I suspect Forest River is about the same. That’s why I have been asking about New Horizons. They are very expensive but the build quality seems to warrant the cost and they listen and work with customers. They even (for a price) build custom which really appeals to us. Being able to carry our toys with us is our number one priority when looking at floor plans
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