We want everyone's opinion

[Icehouse]

Ok, after spending 4 hours unplugging our black tank in below freezing weather and snow, not from freezing but from unbroken down tissue. Bernie asked me to please get on the forum and ask for everyone's input. What chemical do you use in your black tank?

I have a caveat, since we live in Alaska, Camping World cannot ship chemicals to us containing formaldehyde. We had been using a formaldehyde free chemical we got from Camping World and it's crap - pun intended! So, we want all of you to tell us what you use. Thanks! We'll worry about how to get it here when we figure out what we want.

[exav8tr]

We just picked up "Happy Campers" from the Quartzsite rally. Whereas the standard chemicals are enzymatic, these chemicals do it with bacteria. www.1-happycamper.com. Read up and make your own decision. I wish we had more experience with it to help you, but are on our first tank now. Simply an alternative to the standard stuff!!

[Icehouse]

Awesome. I'll look at it. I know Simmons has some Thetford at the service center. I may run over there tomorrow and buy all of it. I use Thetford in our other 5th wheel and it has always done fine. I may see if Greg can just order it for me when I need it instead of trying to go through Camping World directly.
Thanks again!

[Ozz]

We have been enjoying RV'ing for 5 years now, and have never used anything. My uninformed, often ridiculed, basically worthless opinion, is that you do not need anything. You have the Po Po and liquid stuff in a plastic tank, it gets flushed every few days, it is supposed to stink, and no matter how much perfume stuff you stick in there, it smells like a Skunk.... It doesn't stay in there long enough for any miracle chemical to 'break down' anything, besides, all drain fittings are big enough that it doesn't have to break down anything to drain.
My pappy was a Plumber, and by osmosis, I learned lots of 'stuff' from him, I'm a Journeyman Pipefitter, so I know my pipes.
Just use three times as much water as 'stuff' you put in there, and you will be good to go.
IMHO....

[HamRad]

Bernie and Tammy,

We do not use any chemicals. Just water. We flush each bowl with a lot of water. We start with about 5 gallons of water in tank. When we drain we flush as many times as necessary to get good clean drainage.

So far that has worked well for us. We've been using the rig for about 4 years now.

I suspect your problem is simply the very cold weather.

Dennis and Mary Kay

[dandt]

We also use Happy Camper. Have been using faithfully since RVing. Also use PLENTY of water when flushing. Use Scotts septic safe toilet paper and have never had a problem. We have never even had a stink smell with HP. Good Luck. Teresa

[Mrs. CountryGuy]

As has been mentioned, LOTS O WATER.

And, as I have mentioned here a time or two, we don't put, okkk, ready for ewwwwwwwwwwwwww factor, we don't put the gently used toilet paper down there. It goes in a trash can, which is emptied daily.

The really snarly paper, yepper, it goes down there.

You can save yourself a lot of mass in that holding tank if you don't dump the gently used paper in there.

ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

But, hey, NEVER had a plugged black tank yet, 3 rigs, and well over 20 years.

More water, Less paper!

as far as chemical, don't use it unless we are sitting someplace on black top in temps of 85 degrees and up and we will have no access to a dump for 15 days or more.

Calgon (and sometimes we add some laundry soap and a weeeeeeeeee bit of clorox) when we run, lots of rinsing when we dump and are on a full service site.

Also agree with Dennis, your low temps may also add to your situation. But, I still say, More Water, Less Paper!

[TLightning]

We use Calgon...to make the sides of the tanks 'slippery,' and lots of water.

[sgtpp214]

We put in 5 gals of H2O along with a packetof Thetford Campa-Chem Natural we get at Wally World. DW insist we put this in. I also add a cup of Calgon which I think is the key to keeping everything slippery and flushing out when we drain. Also use plenty of water when you flush.

[jackel1959]

Like Oz said, the stuff doesn't stay in there long enough to allow the chemical to break it down although it does help some with oder control. Any drop in or liquid chemical will do this for a short period of time. However, the warmer it is outside the shorter amount of time the chemical will be effective at controlling the oder. Do a slow count to 3 every time you flush, no matter what you are flushing, and you should be fine. Plenty of liquid in the tank to help move the solids out when you dump is the key. This has been my and is just my own unscientific opinion.

Jack

[jjackflash]

Iam not that experienced in waste tanks but we live under septic tank conditions. If you google the septic tank topic you'll read we're they all say you don't need to use any chemicals,they haven't been proven to be affective and I would imagine the same would go for RV tanks!
Jack

[illapah]

Ice house: this comes up periodically and I like this posting:

Black and Gray Water Holding Tank Maintenance

The Geo Method

By Charles Bruni
cbruni@mindspring.com
Renton, Washington
U.S.A.

Everyone who owns an RV should be concerned with maintaining its wastewater tanks. Problems with wastewater tanks that can be avoided should be avoided. Wastewater tank repair is expensive. Due to health concerns, many service facilities will not work on wastewater tanks and lines until the tanks have been completely emptied and sanitized. This may be quite difficult when the tank(s) is in need of repair. So, common sense dictates that the tanks should be kept relatively clean at all times. Additionally, improper use of the wastewater tanks can lead to a build up of solid wastes, which in itself may cause the system to fail.

I've discovered very simple, effective, and inexpensive methods of maintaining my wastewater tanks in a relatively clean condition at all times. I developed these methods myself through my understanding of chemistry, physics, and biology with a smidgen of common sense thrown in for good measure. I also read my RV owner's manual. Although we are not full time RVers we use our fifth wheel camper at least one weekend a month. We never use public bathing and toilet facilities. In other words, our wastewater tanks are fairly heavily used. Since I've met a number of RVers who don't seem to know how to maintain their wastewater tanks I thought many RVers would find my tips useful. If you have not been maintaining your tanks I believe you will be pleasantly surprised the first time you employ these tips. I do these things and they work.


1. DUMP A FULL TANK

When you are camping and your RV is connected to a sewer/septic intake, leave the drain valves closed until the tank is full and ready to dump. Dumping a full tank provides a sufficient quantity of water to flush solids from the tank. Leaving the drain valves open allows the water to drain off without flushing out solid waste. That solid waste will collect in the tank(s) and cause problems over time. If your tanks are not full when you are ready to dump them, fill them with fresh water first, and then dump them.


2. DUMP TANKS IN ORDER FROM DIRTIEST TO CLEANEST

In other words, dump the black (commode) water tank first, then dump the galley tank, then dump the shower and bathroom sink tank. This way you will be flushing out the dirtiest water with progressively cleaner water.


3. USE WATER SOFTENER

**Calgon Water Softener link**

This stuff is amazing and it works. Buy a couple of boxes of powdered water softener at the grocery store. You'll find it located with or near the laundry detergent products. I prefer Calgon Water Softener because it dissolves quickly in water. Cheaper water softeners work just as well but dissolve more slowly. Dissolve two (2) cups of the water softener in a gallon of hot water. Then, pour the solution down the drain into the empty tank. Use two cups of softener for each wastewater tank in your RV. The tank's drain valve should be closed otherwise the softened water will just drain out. Then use the tank(s) normally until it is full and drain it normally. Add a cup of laundry detergent to the black (commode) water tank at the same time you add water softener. This will help clean the tank. The gray water tanks should already contain soap through normal use.

The water softener makes the solid waste let go from the sides of the tanks. If you've ever taken a shower in softened water you know that after rinsing the soap from your body your skin will feel slick. That's because all the soap rinses away with soft water. Softened water also prevents soap scum from sticking in the tub. Get the connection? With softened water gunk washes away instead of sticking. The same thing applies to your RV's wastewater tanks.

I use one of those clear plastic elbow connectors to attach my sewer drain line to the wastewater outlet on my RV. It allows me to see how well things are progressing during a wastewater dump. Before I began using water softener regularly the black water tank's water was brown, the galley tank's water was brownish, and the bathroom tank's water was white. The first time I added water softener to the tanks the water coming from the black water tank was actually black (not brown) and the kitchen tank's water was also black (not brownish). The bathroom tank's water remained white. That told me that the water softener had actually done what I had intended for it to do and made solid waste, which had been stuck to the interior of the tanks, let go and drain away. I added water softener to all the wastewater tanks for the next few dumps to be certain all the solid waste possible had been cleaned away. The wastewater only appeared black on the initial treatment. I now add water softener to each tank once after every few dumps to maintain the system.

Occasionally, I pour a half gallon of liquid bleach into each tank to sanitize and disinfect them. I add the bleach when the tank is about half full, and then continue to use the tank normally until it is full and ready to dump. I no longer use the blue toilet chemical because it isn't necessary. I have no odors coming from my black water tank. Generic brand liquid bleach is cheap and very effective.

How does chlorine bleach work? Great link!


4. USE A WATER FILTER ON YOUR FRESH WATER INTAKE LINE

Most fresh water contains sediment. Sediment will accumulate in your wastewater tanks and your fresh water lines. It also tends to discolor your sinks, tub/shower, and commode. I use the disposable type and have found that they eventually fill up and begin restricting the fresh water flow resulting in low pressure. That's how I know it's time to get a new filter. It works, it's cheap, it avoids problems, do it. When I fill my fresh water tank I attach the filter to the end of the hose and fill the tank with filtered water.


SOME OTHER THOUGHTS

Never put regular toilet tissue in your RV's black tank. Only use toilet tissue which is approved for RV and/or septic tank use. Regular toilet tissue may eventually dissolve, but not before causing a clog in your black tank.

I believe occasionally traveling with partially filled wastewater tanks that contain softened water promotes cleaning by agitating the water. The same goes for chlorine bleach.

I believe this process works faster and more efficiently during warm weather. However, I know it works well even during cool/cold weather.

I believe the process works best the longer the water softener remains in the tanks. So, I don't add water softener during periods of heavy wastewater generation. I wait until I know we won't be generating wastewater quickly so that the softened water remains in the tanks for several days before dumping.

I add a small amount of chlorine bleach to the fresh water tank twice a year to disinfect and sanitize the fresh water tank and fresh water lines. A weak chlorine bleach solution will not hurt you. However, it certainly makes the water taste bad. When we have chlorine in the fresh water system we use bottled water for drinking and cooking until the chlorine is gone.

My tanks are plastic and my pipes are PVC.

Don't be afraid to use your tanks. Just use common sense about their care and maintenance.

These tips are inexpensive to do. Some of them don't cost anything. You have nothing to lose in trying them and I encourage you to do so. I actually feel a certain amount of pride in the condition and cleanliness of both my waste and fresh water systems. Naturally, these tips make dumping a much more pleasant and sanitary procedure.

If you have odors in any of your water systems these procedures should eliminate them. Odors indicate a sanitary problem and degrade the enjoyment you derive from your RV.

When my RV is parked and not in use I place stoppers in the sink and tub drains. This forces the wastewater tanks to vent through the vent pipes to the outside instead of through the drains into the RV. Water evaporates. Once the drain traps dry out during periods of non-use, nothing is there to prevent gasses (odor) from venting into the camper. Use stoppers when your RV is stored.

Please consider printing this information and posting it on the bulletin boards of RV parks and campgrounds you visit. Fellow RVers will benefit from your consideration.

[49merc]

What Ozz said.

Ozz, I understand you only have to know 2 things to be a plumber. C**p runs downhill and paydays on Friday. LOL
Bob

[Joe-n-Doe]

Bernie,

Every time I look at the picture of your rig in that frozen tundra,err forest, my....puckers up. I think Ozz hit the nail on the head, something he is probably very good at, H20...the unfrozen type.

[blarkman]

for the last four years I have only use calgon water softner and 1/4 cup dawn liquid dishwashing soap, The soap cuts the greases and really helps Do not use super soft TP like Charmin as it really swells up and plugs up tank
bob

[ols1932]

I don't understand why I have such a hard time finding Calgon. You would think that the Wal*Mart Super Stores would have it but I can't find it there. Once in a while I find it in some of the older grocery stores like Safeway, IGA, etc. I like it when I can get it. I also use 1/4 cup Snow Fresh (granules) or 1/4 cup Pure Power, not both. Sometimes I don't use anything but some Dawn Dish soap. We never seem to have any problems. My wife, who is very sensitive to bad smells used to complain all the time but I've never used any "perfumey" type deodorant in the tank and she says she cannot smell anything bad. Like was previously posted, the "daintily used" toilet paper goes in the waste basket. It's amazing how much more would be going into the tank if Marge didn't do that.

Orv

[Mrs. CountryGuy]

Orv,

I find the Calgon in the laundry aisle, used to find at Walley World, not sure they carry it any more. I actually use the liquid, does not take much, can carry several of the containers, as they are not large. Would think if you are in an area that the local hardwares/grocery stores, etc. are selling salt for water softeners that you would have an easy time of finding Calgon, as it is for hard water laundry washing, etc. If ya find it, buy several??

Didn't someone say that Borax is the same stuff???

[wingerphil]

sorry to hear of your problem. Perhaps it's the TP you are using and not the chemical. We always use either Scott's or Angel Soft which seem to be the popular choices on the various RV forums since they seem to "break down" quicker than other brands and are cheaper than the "special RV" TP sold at dealerships and outlets.

[Icehouse]

Boy, y'all are quick responders. Thank you! We are currently using Thetford TP. I am going to try some Angel Soft when this last package of TP runs out. Bernie said he wants to get some Calgon as well. Now, Orv, you've got me nervous I won't be able to find any.

Blarkman, I agree with you about the Charmin. It swells up and plugs a toilet in a stick house. Am not a Charmin fan, but I love their commercials.

Ok, we are already flooding the potty with water. I'll change from Thetford paper to Angel Soft. We will get some Calgon and I think we are going to try some of the Happy Camper as we have just finished the bottle of the formaldehyde free stuff. If that doesn't work, then I don't know what will.

Thanks again for all your tips and tidbits.
Tammy

[rubble express]

We have a hard time finding Calgon also. I think Orv hit on it the last time this subject came up...it's a regional thing. If the water in a particular area is not too hard nobody would buy the stuff so the stores don't stock it. It's definitely not available here in northern Ky. We always look for it when we are on the road and usually find enough of it to get us by. I also prefer the liquid over the powder and also use a little dawn. USE MORE WATER!!!