V-10 and MPG

[richfaa]

This is NOT a diesel vs Gasser question but I am curious. yes we have the 05 V-10 and we are seriously considering the 6.4l 08 Ford diesel. I posted before that while in the Arizona, Tx, NM this winter we got much better MPG (2 mpg+) someone mentioned it might be the higher altitude or different fuel.. Well here we are in Colorado and we have noted that in SD, WY and Co we are doing much better on MPG. We have been using that different fuel they have around here like the BP silver, Less money, higher octane, ethanol mix. Now this truck normally lives at about 750 feet elevation (Ohio) we have been at 5K feet or higher for the last few days and we can not believe the MPG. At one point across Wy we were doing 11.2 towing this 3400 anchor. On the run from Casper, Wy to Loveland, Co where we are now the handy dandy Pc readout reads as we speak 9.6 mpg and that is not exactly level ground. Does the Diesel react to altitude and different fuel mixture like the gasser apparently does??I have said many times that MPG is the worst primary reason to purchase a motor and that is NOT my primary reason..it is power, power , power.. We do note the loss of power at the higher altitude although we have never to this point had a problem with the hills with the V-10.The diesels have the extra power but we both make the hills within the speed limit. But..I would sure appreciate that extra power. I keep saying to Helen..we are huffing and puffing again and I would sure like the extra power and she keeps saying..so what..we don't need the extra power??? Any expert opinions out there????

[Broome101]

Rich you are getting as good of mileage with V10 that I am with 6.0 PSD, I don't think the 6.$ PSD are getting that kind of mileage towing after looking at Diesel Stop.com Forum.

[hazmic]

Rich
The extra power is nice. I have the diesel[7.3] and it has only 72K on it. I feel that it finally got broken in last winter as my mileage went-up and the motor just sounds better. I do have a chip in it for PULLING AND FUEL MANAGEMENT. I know that the dealer wants my truck because of the motor. Also the fuel that we use makes a difference,both gas and diesel.We just got back from a trip out to N H. We just bought a new Ford 500 and 25-27 mpg and the difference was the gas. We use only 87 octane,no gasohol.It very well could have been that your's finally got broken in. Would I go with a diesel? Most defiantly. That's is MY OPTION. A lot won't agree but that is the way why we have different things.

[VanMan]

Several years ago, when I was thinking PSD vs gas, I read an article where someone did an extensive study (of course some things change like deisel price vs gas price, etc) and at the time it took 100k + miles before you broke even. That was comparing the engine cost difference, extra maintenance costs for the PSD, oil filters, glow plugs, etc.).

We just got back from a 3 week trip to AZ & NM. I checked the mileage the first 2 tanks (both in TX) and never checked it again - too depressing (< 8 mpg). I filled up once with the lower octane (86) and my yellow check engine light came on for a tankful.

My only solace was that our "other car" is a Prius (50+ mpg).

[Hemlockusa]

Richfaa. Why don't you check with William Collier He and his bride Linda, showed up at the Branson Get togeather with a spanking new 6.4 Ford and also Steve Reigle who is now drivng a 6.7 Cummins. They are both qualified individuals and will give you the straight information. I think Steve told me that running 70 with the Cummins and new 6 speed the engine was only turning around 1700 RPM. Check with either of those MONTANA OWNERS and that will give you a lot of information. Best of luck trying to convince Helen you need a new TOY. ho ho ho John

[tom41]

This is my opinion on gas versus diesel...If you only going to use your truck for towing only on 2 or 3 week vacation, and as a daily driver to work, then probably a gasser would be the better choice because of price at purchase time. One may be as good as the other. BUT..like I am a fulltimer, towing all kinds terrain, hills, mountains, level, and for alot of miles a yr., then for my use its the diesel for me. More power when needed, better mileage, and so far, less $$$ in upkeep. Just stop, look around you as you travel around, All trains, 18 wheelers, dirt haulers, dozers, ect, heavy equipment has what powering them ? "diesel" of course. but its whatever works for you. just my 2 cents worth

[skypilot]

Rich: I'm still trying to find the article but there was one about a year ago comparing gas - diesel in our usage. At that time the gas engine got the nod because of the fuel price being less than diesel; no way to recoup the extra cost of the diesel, especially since most of us don't keep a diesel truck 100 to 200K miles. However, taking cost out of the equation, the diesel got the nod for durability, longetivity (that doesn't look like it is spelled correctly ), power at altitude and power at all levels (torque). Gas engine loses power at a rate of approximately 3 percent per thousand feet gain in altitude. The diesel, being turbo'd, keeps that efficiency up to a much higher altitude, albeit also loses power once the air density drops sufficiently.

That leads to the 2nd part of the answer -- driving my Dodge in Albuquerque and around New Mexico when I'm visiting the In-laws and my original home territory, I get much better fuel mileage than I do here in Kansas (altitude of 5200 ft in NM vs. 700 to 1000 ft here in KS). Denser air requires more fuel to get moving; and believe it or not, driving in that less dense air at altitude takes less horsepower to maintain speed (air is less dense, hence less resistance). Don't know that the amount is enough to really matter but sure makes me feel better when I see myself getting the higher mpg. Last thing is the fuel you get there is a different blend -- having worked in gas and aviation dealers earlier in my life, I remember classes we had to take where they talked about the vapor point, etc., having to be different so that cars would start easily. Add ethanol to the mixture (which many of the cities out there now require for smog control in the summer months) and you add even more heat and better burns. Result, better mileage is often seen on long drives. The stop and go driving is the opposite though, in-town driving normally sees a small reduction in fuel because of the lower octane used there (that is why an earlier post mentioned 87 octane. Not much but with the additional oxidants of the ethanol, many see a 'check engine' light for a short while when first burning it).

Again, sorry for being so long winded. One last item -- there is a very (or was a very) aggressive market for aftermarket supercharger installations in trucks and performance cars in Albuquerque a few years ago -- trying to get some of that altitude performance loss back. I know the Dodge and Chev dealers where selling a ton of them at that point.

Guess it goes back to the thing about big trucks, trains and all; diesel engines are built heavy and strong, to last a long time. But then again, I've seen some ole flat head fords, and slant-6 chrysler products around here of late that aren't doing badly either. Guess it it depends if you prefer the smell of diesel or gasoline on your hands when you get back in your rig to drive away from the pump.

[tom41]

awwwww skypilot you would have to mention them old flathead fords, hehe with the three duces, 3/4 cam, straight tubes, shaved heads, rebored .30 over, and on an on!!

LOL/ guess who this dude is at the age of 16 with that old flathead!! : )

[noneck]

Hi Rich, All these posts are great...I'll just add my 2 cents. Been driving gas since I was able to straddle a motorcycle. 2005 I finally was pushed by my DW to purchase this used F250 Diesel due to breakdown on I81 and will never go back. Reason is two fold...1st I keep my vehicles for at minimum 10yrs, and second for the hope that diesel is a >250k mile engine. I have found at about 80k miles most of my vehicles start to have tranny issue, then at 100k the gas engine starts to loose oil pressure. Hope this is all fixed with the current vehicle I have selected for towing the Montana!

[snfexpress]

Rich,

We have a GMC with only 5,000 miles on it so it is really not even broken in, yet. I expect that the mileage will increase at about 20,000 miles. Anyway, we pulled our 3400 (we are fulltiming, so you get the picture on weight) up highway 50 from Montrose, CO over the rockies (altitude of over 13,000 feet with 6% grade up AND down), to Colorado Springs, CO. We got 10.4 mpg. Today, on a grocery run (about 50 miles round trip), with no 5er, we averaged 14.6 mpg.

Coming down the east side of the rockies, I was averaging 40 mph and the tranny was doing the shifting to keep it at this speed. A few times, I used the manual portion of the tranny to slow it down to about 25 - 30 mph due to traffic ahead of us. I used the brakes as infrequently as possible.

Hope this helps.

[richfaa]

Skypilot.I like your post..Did some googling and what you say makes sense. Ran up Co 34 from Loveland to above Estes park @ 8000 feet(Solo ) before we had to turn back because of rain and bad weather. Reset the PC when leaving tha C.G and got the readout at the 8000 foot level all uphill of course..10.2mpg. I know we are doing almost as good on MPG TOWING as the newer diesels but that means little to me. I am surprised at the performancer of this V-10..we did not expect it.Don't much care about longevity as I have never had a truck with 100K miles on it.But..sure like the power of the oilburner. Can't stand the smell of the Old diesel fuel/ Kerosene. When I worked at CLE airport i had a headache all the time. One of the reasons I transfered to the ARTCC.Driving the diesel busses did not help and I hated to fuel. The new stuff smells better and does not bother me as much. BTY..when Ford dropped the 7.3L..I cried.....Tried to find a good 7.3l truck before buying the V-10 but could not come up with one. Good info guys..

[Bruce Lenhardt]

As I have stated before, I have an '08 with a 6.4 and love it. Pulling my small 5er I get about 11 MPG with only 2K miles. Without the 5er, I get about 17 MPG on the interstate. With a combination of city and mostly interstate-15 MPG.
In my case it comes down to what you want. I didn't try to justify on cost alone. I wanted a diesel, mainly for the torque and HP. The diesel costs more but you get it back when you sell it or trade it. If you want one buy it if not don't. Actually I like the smell of the old diesels better than the new.

[sreigle]

Rich, you didn't mention the change in elevation and I haven't researched your route. I know Loveland is on the Front Range plains. By any chance were you seeing an elevation drop over the length of your route? I've seen significant mpg difference when dropping altitude overall. I know going across Kansas I get better mileage from west to east (drops 2,000ft) than I do going east to west, for example. Just wondering if this is a factor.

Your V10 is doing great. Mine never got anywhere close to double digits towing our Montana.

[richfaa]

We are going to run that same route today. The CG is at about the 5100 foot level and we will be going to above the 10K foot level today.I just have new truck fever and it may as well be a diesel but we are not at all unhappy with the 05 V-10.It lacks the power of the diesel on steep grades and at very high altitudes but we still get it done.

[Wrenchtraveller]

I am really surprised my 05 V10 has the power it does but my mileage is not anywhere near as good as yours, Rich. The last trip I got back I averaged 7 miles per US gal but mine is a 4X4 and a 4x4 will always use a little more fuel.
I always leave my vehicles stock and travel the same highways. My 95 and 2000 PSD engines were great but did not pull 8% grades as well with an 8000 pound Fiver as this V10 pulls my 12000 pound Montana. The 8 months I owned my 04 6.0 PSD , I only owned a slide in camper weighing about 3000 pounds and the 6.0 hauled that thing very well but I also hauled that with my V10 and it hauled it every bit as good. I am certain a good running 6.0 will out pull a V10 but it will not just run away from it. I was reading a Trailer life report on a GMC gasser and Toyota gasser pulling a lower middle weight travel trailer and the GMC made 7 and the Toyota made 8.2 MPG. My V10 is looking pretty good and Richfaa's is exceptional. My advice to Rich, keep the V10 and let the diesels get better than they are. When Toyota gets into the heavy duty diesel pickup market, than I too will think about going back to a diesel. Meanwhile, most diesel owners are now reluctant to own a diesel engine that is off warranty because of the chance of a breakdown that will wipe out 200000 miles of fuel savings in the swipe of a bank card.

[richfaa]

I might add that we are very light of foot. We drive by the tach not the speed-o- meter and we watch and control the RPM's. I know where this guy likes to run and if we keep it within those limits we do real good. When we run 70/75 we can be in the low to mid 7's. You know how it is with new truck fever..and to tell the truth I don't think we need a diesel..just want one because I never had one of my very own////Only go around once you know.

[Montana Sky]

Rich,
I thought I would post my fuel economy from last years 7,000+ mile trip to the fall rally. This is with total gross weight of approx. 21,000 lbs.

From Spokane, WA to Missoula, MT. My truck averaged 11.8 mpg. That is over 2 passes, 4th of July, and Lookout. The road into MT is very curvy and has many rolling grades, pretty hard to keep a constant speed.

From Salt Lake City, UT to Cheyenne, WY. Truck averaged 12 mpg and that includes the climb up and over 10,000' through Park City, UT.

On the rolling flats of IA, IL, and IN, the truck averaged 13.2 mpg

From Bozeman, MT to Spokane, WA over the continental divide and again over the 4th of July and Lookout mountain passes truck averaged 12.4 mpg.

If you can swing the diesel, I say go for it... Why not? Helen and you have earned it!

On edit,
I should also say that I tend to tow up the grades at 45 mph and the descent at 20 - 30 mph. On the flats, I traditionally roll at 65 - 68 mph, but have been known to hit 70 on the open prairie. Also, 70 mph puts me at 2,000 on the tachometer.

[Cyrus]

I have kept track of every mile and fuel since I bought it, 2005 F250 4x4 off road diesel 6.0 with the factory tow package and maxed load package. Factory tires 75 lbs of air which most people don’t believe. It has 54k miles on it now. The mileage varies a lot between tanks, some times & I have not figured out why. I average around 12 MPG pulling the camper (most of the time) and around 17 MPG without camper (most of the time), have gotten better & worse in both cases. I only use the tow mode for breaking, mileage drops way down with that button pushed because it doesn’t shift until about 2,800 RPM’s which means over 60 MPH to get into overdrive. Driving in town with street lights I do use the tow mode. As you said about the smell of diesel fuel, the odor is different, not bad and I don’t worry when it gets on my hands. I like the diesel and the big truck so I might be a little biased.

[virgil47]

Just for fun I thought I'd share my mileage. We bobtailed to Akron from North Georiga and saw a little over 13mpg on the onboard computer on interstate only with cruise set at 65. Overall we got averaged 11.4. Towing down to South Georgia and back last week, about 700 miles roundtrip, we averaged 10.8mpg. The fiver weighs around 16,000(not fully loaded). This big truck sure ain't for everybody but I enjoy the heck out of driving and towing with it.

[Broome101]

Rich,
Was having my 05 PSD serviced yesterday. Was on lot looking while they were changing the oil. Sales Mgr came out who sold me my truck and my companies Ford 500's we drive. He just had to get me into one of the 6.4PSD said you cannot believe how quite they are especially inside plus the take off. Well I must say I was very impressed, this thing has some juice and is as quite as a gasser is. He thought he could hook me I told him mine is running fine and only 12 more months and she's all mine. If I was in market more than liely be the 6.4 PSD the new interiors are very nice as well.