Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > GENERAL DISCUSSIONS > Tow Vehicles & Towing
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-01-2011, 06:55 AM   #1
berridge
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: St Catharines
Posts: 176
M.O.C. #6415
Tow Weight Basics

In the past there has been much discussion about tow vehicle loads which when I was a new owner caused me some confusion. With this in mind I thought this basic info might be of help to those new to the wonderful world of fifth wheel towing. The first step is to drive up on a CAT scale at a truck stop when on a trip with a full load. This will yield three values-the weight on each of the TV axles and the combined (total)weight on the trailer axles. Then add the two TV axle weights together. This gives the gross vehicle weight (GVW)-the weight of the TV with its load. Check this value with the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) which is found on the sticker usually located on the drivers door post along with the tire specs and pressures. To be legal the GVW must be less than the GVWR. As an example I have a 3075 Monty and a 2011 ONE ton Ford truck. My GVW, the sum of the two TV axle weights, is 10470 lbs while the GVWR on the sticker is 10700 lbs, so I am legal but just. However I am well within the axle ratings. I understand that it is the GVW that is measured by highway enforcement people.
berridge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 08:11 AM   #2
Art-n-Marge
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Murrieta
Posts: 5,816
M.O.C. #9257
Send a message via MSN to Art-n-Marge Send a message via Yahoo to Art-n-Marge
While you are at the scales you might weigh one side at each point to get the side-to-side weights to ensure one side is not carrying way more than the other. To know what the other side weighs just subtract these weights from the total for each point.

I found I was a little lighter on the passenger side at the rear trailer axle but all were still within the 3,000 lbs per tire for my rig with 6,000 lb axles. That corner has just the sofa bed and overhead cabinets. The opposite side has the fireplace, Glass Television, the desk and a bunch of cabinets and we carry DVDs, electronics and other gear from home. One of these days we'll move all the extra stuff to the other side to help out a little bit. It's hard to believe this extra stuff weighs that much, but every little bit of consideration will help.

I like the fact berridge points out that we should ALL go get our real numbers every so often so we know where we stand. This should always be done at the beginning at our trips or whenever we are at our most heaviest. We learned to carry less and do the shopping at the destination and not to carry the extra weight when we don't need it.

Lucky for me I found a Storage place with a scale (they weigh their moving trucks all the time) and they only charge me $10 for as many weights as I want. They jot them down on a piece of paper, then I create a spreadsheet for every wheel and axle for reference. I have weighed twice and the numbers are very consistent since I carry pretty much the same stuff. The biggest change is that the first weighing I was overloaded at the rear axle and the gross weight of my Ford F-250. The trailer was fine. I have legally upgraded the truck to an F-350 and the second weighing confirmed I am now within the new ratings.

I didn't get the truck "recertified" so I can only tow legally for private use (I saved all the documentation showing the proper parts were purchased and used and pictures of the results). If so inclined I would pay a bit for the recertification and this would change the VIN to reflect the new changes and therefore incur higher vehicle registration fees. Since I don't tow enough I didn't bother.

Oh yes, for the curious, adding the extra hardware for the increase in ratings did make the unladen weight of the truck about 100 lbs heavier. The extra weight came from larger tires (18" from 17"), larger wheels (including the spare) and the extra leaf spring, brackets, bumpers and hardware. A small 100 lb increase in weight to gain a large increase in ratings (+900 at the rear axle, +1500 GVWR). I got lucky and didn't have to buy a new truck.
Art-n-Marge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2018, 09:16 PM   #3
Ed C
Established Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Georgetown
Posts: 36
M.O.C. #22849
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art-n-Marge View Post
I have legally upgraded the truck to an F-350 and the second weighing confirmed I am now within the new ratings.

I didn't get the truck "recertified" so I can only tow legally for private use (I saved all the documentation showing the proper parts were purchased and used and pictures of the results).
I know this is an old post, but I have a similar situation - and would like to legally upgrade my F-250's payload to that of an F-350. May I ask how you did that? I am searching, but can't yet find a way to do so. Thank you!
__________________


Ed and Dianne (and Clancy, the red Poodle)
2019 Montana 20th Anniversary Edition 3700LK
Ed C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2018, 05:39 AM   #4
Montana Man
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Lemoore
Posts: 603
M.O.C. #21963
It is my understanding that weight ratings can't be changed by bolt ons. The rating is a factory calculation and they would have to be involved with any changes.
__________________
2016 3160, Legacy, Manufacturing defects corrected by me, 2014 Ram 3500 SRW SWB 4X4 6.7 Aisin Mega Cab, EBC slotted disks and brakes.
Montana Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2018, 07:47 AM   #5
The Bone
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Livermore
Posts: 321
M.O.C. #17521
MM is correct. You can put F350 springs but the mostly the axle may be the difference between the 10,000 and the 11,500 load rated trucks. Even the F350 comes in the 10,000 load rating. You have to make sure if you go bigger you make sure you step up to the heavier weight truck. Then there is the mac daddy DRW which can do anything. However they are way bigger and if you use your truck on a daily basis than to big of a truck.
The Bone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2018, 10:06 AM   #6
DQDick
Montana Master
 
DQDick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Wilsey
Posts: 16,720
M.O.C. #11455
Also, if it's a SRW, some of the newer trucks allow a higher rear axle weight than you can buy tires for that are rated to hold that weight. This will probably also be a problem for those who are trying to upgrade a 250 legal or not.
__________________
Dick, Joyce, Diego, Picatso and Gustav
2017 3720 RL, MorRyde pin box
2017 3500 Dodge Maxi DRW 4X4, Pullrite Hitch, IS, Disk Brakes, 3rd AC, Winegard Traveler, Bathroom door mod, Dometic 320, couch for desk swap, etc.
DQDick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2018, 12:14 PM   #7
TLightning
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kville
Posts: 2,781
M.O.C. #7871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed C View Post
I know this is an old post, but I have a similar situation - and would like to legally upgrade my F-250's payload to that of an F-350. May I ask how you did that? I am searching, but can't yet find a way to do so. Thank you!
Only Ford can do that, or bless it if somebody else does it.
TLightning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2018, 06:19 PM   #8
CarWin
Montana Master
 
CarWin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Thornville
Posts: 505
M.O.C. #21110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed C View Post
I know this is an old post, but I have a similar situation - and would like to legally upgrade my F-250's payload to that of an F-350. May I ask how you did that? I am searching, but can't yet find a way to do so. Thank you!
I put 1 ton springs and rear sway bar on our truck,as that was the only difference between our 2500 and a 3500 hd Duramax. We now have the same suspension,rearend,and gearing as a 3500 SRW truck. Also I have 20" wheels, but I'm looking at upgrading those,as thats what came factory on mine.
__________________
Darwin & Carla
2018.5 3701LK Montana
2019 3500HD Denali Dually Duramax
CarWin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 06:09 AM   #9
DadsHemi
Montana Fan
 
DadsHemi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Florence
Posts: 319
M.O.C. #20472
There’s no changing your tow/haul limits no matter what you do to any pickup truck, the limits set are to protect everyone on the road.
__________________

2018 Ram 3500 Megacab 6.7 Aisin
4x4 4:10 Gears Lariame
2017 Montana 3160RL
DadsHemi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 08:20 AM   #10
Montana Man
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Lemoore
Posts: 603
M.O.C. #21963
Tow ratings are not determined by weight carrying capacity alone. Vehicle weight, designed braking capacity, and structural strength are just some of the criteria used to determine GVWR.
__________________
2016 3160, Legacy, Manufacturing defects corrected by me, 2014 Ram 3500 SRW SWB 4X4 6.7 Aisin Mega Cab, EBC slotted disks and brakes.
Montana Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 08:38 AM   #11
mazboy
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Grand Rapids
Posts: 1,528
M.O.C. #9561
Trailer to Truck ratings/weight.
Keep it Simple. Get a one ton diesel.
mazboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 08:43 AM   #12
beeje
Montana Master
 
beeje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: westminster md
Posts: 1,353
M.O.C. #17894
Its real simple. Buy a truck capable of towing your unit, while keeping ALL the #s within the manufacture's ratings. Or but a camper light enough to be within ALL your trucks towing capacity #s. As mentioned, you can not simply bolt on more capacity.
__________________
2014 GMC 3500 Dually diesel 4x4 CCLB. Curt q24.
2011 Montana 3455 SA. 6 point level up. Disc brakes.
Progressive EMS. Valterra tank valves. Sailun G637 tires. ARP fridge control. All led lighting. Mor Ryde IS to be installed 6/2020
beeje is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 03:48 PM   #13
TLightning
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kville
Posts: 2,781
M.O.C. #7871
Quote:
Originally Posted by beeje View Post
...Buy a truck capable of towing your unit, while keeping ALL the #s within the manufacture's ratings...
The problem is not "towing." Most 250/2500s can "tow" and remain in specs. What they cannot do is remain within specs for the cargo capacity...as noted on the Tire and Loading Information sticker on the driver's door post. The pin weight of a Montana will put them over the cargo capacity and therefore over weight.
TLightning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 05:04 PM   #14
CarWin
Montana Master
 
CarWin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Thornville
Posts: 505
M.O.C. #21110
Not 1 time did I state what I done to our truck made it "legally capable" of towing what a 1 ton is GVWR`d for. I made those updates to my TV by my choice, as I didn't like the slight upward tilt of the headlights when towing. IF I wanted a 1 ton dually ,I`d buy it, but its just NOT conducive for the small amount that I tow our camper and the distances we go.
__________________
Darwin & Carla
2018.5 3701LK Montana
2019 3500HD Denali Dually Duramax
CarWin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 05:07 PM   #15
CarWin
Montana Master
 
CarWin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Thornville
Posts: 505
M.O.C. #21110
Quote:
Originally Posted by TLightning View Post
The problem is not "towing." Most 250/2500s can "tow" and remain in specs. What they cannot do is remain within specs for the cargo capacity...as noted on the Tire and Loading Information sticker on the driver's door post. The pin weight of a Montana will put them over the cargo capacity and therefore over weight.
That same thing will happen even with a 1 ton SRW ,IF you look at the tire weight ratings!

Does anyone know of ANY SRW trucks that have tires ratings to carry the weight of these 5`ers?
__________________
Darwin & Carla
2018.5 3701LK Montana
2019 3500HD Denali Dually Duramax
CarWin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 05:56 PM   #16
beeje
Montana Master
 
beeje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: westminster md
Posts: 1,353
M.O.C. #17894
Quote:
Originally Posted by TLightning View Post
The problem is not "towing." Most 250/2500s can "tow" and remain in specs. What they cannot do is remain within specs for the cargo capacity...as noted on the Tire and Loading Information sticker on the driver's door post. The pin weight of a Montana will put them over the cargo capacity and therefore over weight.
That is not correct. NO and I repeat, NO 250/2500 will be within ALL specs towing a heavy fifth wheel (north of say 10-12l lbs). In most cases you will exceed the cargo capacity as soon as you hitch up.
Re read my post. I used caps twice on the word ALL. You should not exceed the rear axle weight/tire weight/cargo capacity weight/front axle weight/entire truck weight/camper axle weight/entire camper weight etc.etc.ect.
__________________
2014 GMC 3500 Dually diesel 4x4 CCLB. Curt q24.
2011 Montana 3455 SA. 6 point level up. Disc brakes.
Progressive EMS. Valterra tank valves. Sailun G637 tires. ARP fridge control. All led lighting. Mor Ryde IS to be installed 6/2020
beeje is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 09:57 PM   #17
Creeker
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Charleston
Posts: 213
M.O.C. #23094
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarWin View Post
That same thing will happen even with a 1 ton SRW ,IF you look at the tire weight ratings!

Does anyone know of ANY SRW trucks that have tires ratings to carry the weight of these 5`ers?
Our F350 SRW is rated 1500lbs more GVWR and 1350 lbs more payload than the same year and cab/bed configured F250. Both with 6.7 diesel. This info straight from Ford.

Our rear axle is rated at 7000lbs and tires are rated at 7280lbs. (3640 x 2)

The DRW jumps up another 2500lbs GVWR and 1940lbs in payload over the F350 SRW. (Same cab but long bed.)
__________________
2019 Montana HC 310RE
2010 Wildcat 29RLBS
2014 Ford F-350 Lariat 6.7
Creeker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2018, 07:51 PM   #18
djgodden
Established Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Hesperia
Posts: 29
M.O.C. #18183
Guys, this topic always brings out what I call "the weight gestapo". Those that pound on the labeled weights as gospel never to be exceeded. They aren't wrong... however, if you're interested in "upgrading" your 3/4 ton to a 1 ton take a very close look at how those 2 trucks are different. Take the time to look at the part numbers on your 250 and see if the 350 has a matching number. You might find, like I did on my RAM, that the part numbers are the same. I discovered the entire drive train and suspension was identical with 1 single difference, the 3500 had one additional leaf spring. I simply added Airlift Load Lifter 5000 bags.

I have however added (just because I can)
Extreme Duty brake discs and pads
Heavy Hauler Wheels and 285 vice 265 tires
and a few other engine related things.
__________________
Joel and Diane

2005 Montana 2955RL, 400w Renogy Solar w/charge controller charging 4 6v 225AH for 12V at 450AH, 3000W GoPower Inverter
djgodden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2018, 11:22 PM   #19
Montana Man
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Lemoore
Posts: 603
M.O.C. #21963
What year is your truck?
__________________
2016 3160, Legacy, Manufacturing defects corrected by me, 2014 Ram 3500 SRW SWB 4X4 6.7 Aisin Mega Cab, EBC slotted disks and brakes.
Montana Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2018, 08:19 PM   #20
djgodden
Established Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Hesperia
Posts: 29
M.O.C. #18183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Man View Post
What year is your truck?
2012 Ram Longhorn 2500
__________________
Joel and Diane

2005 Montana 2955RL, 400w Renogy Solar w/charge controller charging 4 6v 225AH for 12V at 450AH, 3000W GoPower Inverter
djgodden is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fuse Panel Basics pbahlin Montana Problems, Problem Solving & Technical Help 7 09-29-2011 02:58 AM
Pin weight Texas5er Tow Vehicles & Towing 8 06-08-2007 01:06 PM
F-350 weight Verle and Sue Tow Vehicles & Towing 14 01-06-2007 05:13 PM
Weight being carried versus weight being towed Bill Frisbee Tow Vehicles & Towing 19 04-07-2006 07:07 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×