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Old 07-10-2009, 12:31 PM   #1
Roamingusa
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Re: zapped & Fried

I am soooo glad I found this site, if you read my other post re: Zapped and fried. We had an RV tech come out to get estaments on our fried appliances. He wasn't sure where the converter was, so we searched, I said "Are you sure it isn't behind the breaker /fuse box?" "Nah it shouldn't be there" After he looked at the wall where the dryer was he said "Uh OH it's behind the breakers" He wouldn't even look at me LOL LOL I said "nope, never listen to the woman". I remember reading on this site in someones post where it was. He is an excellent RV tech, we have used him several times on this trailer and our previous one. If any one is ever in the Reno area, email me and I will give you his name and phone#.It turns out our converter is fried, our refer only needed a new fuse, our tv is gone, microwave fried.
Now, I hope it dosen't take forever to get the RV parks butt in gear and settle this!!!!
Thank you all for my rambling!
Chris
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Old 07-10-2009, 04:57 PM   #2
Art-n-Marge
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Document EVERYTHING. I have a feeling this is going to be an uphill battle. The negligence seems to be on the part of the electrical contractor that was hired by the CG.

If there were other victims, get their info, too.
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Old 07-10-2009, 06:14 PM   #3
Roamingusa
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Art-n-Marge

Document EVERYTHING. I have a feeling this is going to be an uphill battle. The negligence seems to be on the part of the electrical contractor that was hired by the CG.

If there were other victims, get their info, too.
Art,
You are correct, uphill all the way. Now they are blaming Keystone saying there must be something wrong with the way our rigs are wired. Both neighbors on each side of me had the exact same thing. One is a Sprinter,ours is a Montana, the other is an Everest all by Keystone.All of us suffered the same damage, well for cripes sakes the surge went through our rigs before anyone elses on the row first and it did take a while for them to cut the power after it happened! We just got back from WA and went through several power outages at the park there, nothing happened to our rig there, or any other Keystone rigs.We(all three of us) are through talking to the office, and are contacting a lawyer on Monday. I am also calling Keystone to see what they think of the whole thing.
I have a folder started with daily detailed list of what is happening. I took pictures of our site with site # visable and power pole with site# to show what condition those poles are in.
OK enough rambling thanks for listening.
Chris
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Old 07-10-2009, 06:27 PM   #4
stiles watson
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Ask the CG for their insurance carrier. Then call the carrier and file a claim. After reviewing the case the carrier may just pay you. The CG people may not even turn it over to their carrier unless you force it.
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Old 07-10-2009, 06:30 PM   #5
Roamingusa
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quote:Originally posted by stiles watson

Ask the CG for their insurance carrier. Then call the carrier and file a claim. After reviewing the case the carrier may just pay you. The CG people may not even turn it over to their carrier unless you force it.
Thanks Stiles,
I will add that to my list of calls for Monday. IF the corporate office will tell me.
Thanks again!
Chris
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Old 07-10-2009, 06:43 PM   #6
Art-n-Marge
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But Keystone does not make the electronics. The protection comes from the converter supplier, like IOTA. Compare your converter providers in the rigs that failed. I'll bet they are the same as some of the other units that did NOT fail.

Have the CG write you a letter on what happened, that the CG blames Keystone for faulty parts and what the CG did to cause these Keystone RVs to blow them up like that and Keystone should be liable. I'll bet they don't do that.

But I do like Stiles' idea.
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Old 07-10-2009, 06:52 PM   #7
Roamingusa
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Art-n-Marge

But Keystone does not make the electronics. The protection comes from the converter supplier, like IOTA. Compare your converter providers in the rigs that failed. I'll bet they are the same as some of the other units that did NOT fail.

Have the CG write you a letter on what happened, that the CG blames Keystone for faulty parts and what the CG did to cause these Keystone RVs to blow them up like that and Keystone should be liable. I'll bet they don't do that.

But I do like Stiles' idea.
No they are blaming Keystone saying our wiring was bad and should of been recalled.
I will ask the RV Tech if they are all different.
You guys on here are great, I think my blood pressure is getting back to normal.But the new grey hairs are here to stay. LOL
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Old 07-10-2009, 07:18 PM   #8
Art-n-Marge
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So they are saying anything designed for 120v should be able to withstand a 240v surge?

We need some forum members who are electronically proficient who can help us through this. I know they are blowing smoke but I don't know the counter arguments.

If this were the case, there wouldn't be companies out there making a whole lot of money coming up with electronic after market addons for ALL rigs that help prevent electrical failures, especially when a CG decides it's going to test their customer's rigs that aren't as robust to handle these obscene voltage spikes that THEY sponsor.
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Old 07-11-2009, 07:59 AM   #9
NCFischers
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Circuit breakers will withstand 240 volts as will the wiring. Electronics is another story. This might be difficult but see if you can find out what the contractor did. Did he drop the neutral leg or did he put 240 volts on one or both hot legs. This can make a difference as to what might have been damaged. If you can find out, let us know.
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Old 07-11-2009, 08:06 AM   #10
Roamingusa
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quote:Originally posted by NCFischers

Circuit breakers will withstand 240 volts as will the wiring. Electronics is another story. This might be difficult but see if you can find out what the contractor did. Did he drop the neutral leg or did he put 240 volts on one or both hot legs. This can make a difference as to what might have been damaged. If you can find out, let us know.
Hi,
From what we can understand (office kinda tight lipped right now) When they repaired the poles here and kicked the power back on, they were thinking 50 amp, but we are on 30 amp. I'm sorry if this doesen't make sense but we (all 3 of us ) are elec. stupid!
Chris
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Old 07-11-2009, 09:02 AM   #11
Tom S.
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If (and that's a big 'if') all three trailers were made at the same, it could be possible to have a wiring defect (a new trainee on the assembly line) but it would have shown up long before now.

It sounds like the campground was either doing the work themselves, or using a friend/relative. First of, find out who exactly was doing the work and if they are certified to do such work. Second, find out if the contractor (assuming it was a legitimate contractor) has insurance. The burden of proof is upon them, not you. You and the other two owners experienced problems that are a direct result of the contractor's mistakes. If the camp ground balks at helping you, ask for their insurance carrier as well, since they were responsible for hiring the contractor, they too can held accountable. Once they realize you know that, they will probably be happy to help you go after the contractor.

Other tips: be professional. Don't rant and rave and threaten legal action. Present your case and demands, including compensation for any additional expenses such as the technician who came out and inspected your trailer. Be firm but polite. If this fails, follow through on the lawyer. I don't think it will go that far, but you never know.
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Old 07-11-2009, 12:33 PM   #12
NCFischers
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There are no problems with the trailers. The problem lies with the work that was done. Their 30 amp/50 amp explanation doesn't make any sense. Putting voltage on the hot leg AND the neutral leg of a 30 amp circuit accidently, thereby causing you to have 240 volts on your appliances, does. I agree, be firm but calm at first. If they stonewall you, then you can rachet it up. Good luck and please keep us posted on your progress.
P.S. You might want to let the campground know that you have been posting on this forum with your questions and how many people are here reading this thread and we all camp.
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Old 07-11-2009, 07:28 PM   #13
dsprik
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I agree that it can't be the trailers. All three, Sprinter, Montana, Everest are made in different buildings by different crews (or they were anyway - not sure what they are doing currently, but probably weren't consolidating operations at the time your rigs were built).

It could be very difficult to find out exactly what the contractors did. If they did something wrong I believe it is highly unlikely they would admit it. The job market is really tough right now...
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Old 07-12-2009, 05:35 AM   #14
maintechfotog
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I suffered a similar voltage problem when our local hydro utility dropped a hot wire onto the neutral and my house was hit with 240v. I took the toasted parts to their reception desk and requested their manager take a look. The utility offered to pay for the damage, providing I provide receipts.
Regarding the question of 30 or 50 amps; the maximum amount of current delivered to your rig is set by the Camp Ground's wiring and their service breaker, not by your system. Each of your appliances demand current when they are switched on and if you exceed the rated supply, then the breaker protection system will act, just like an overloaded mains breaker will at home. If more current is demanded of a one of your internal trailer circuits, then the affected circuit will be opened by its breaker, or fuse.
As far as your trailer wiring and appliances go, the breakers and fuses in your fuse panel limit the maximum current delivered, (but not voltage, which should be controlled by the hydro supply,) and the breaker or fuse will open the circuit if the current is exceeded, protecting the supply wiring. The appliance electronic circuit is sometimes fitted with small current glass-walled fuses to protect it.
In a typical residence, a large voltage surge may generate heat too quickly for the breaker system to respond in time to isolate the on-line appliance, so surge protection is often used. Simple surge protection is typically a sacrificial electronic part which limits peak voltages, normally selected to control the duration and amplitude of the typical spike. Sophisticated (and expensive) voltage control 'clamps' the supply to the normal range, while low voltages can be 'crowbar' lifted to normal levels. Some voltage regulators can withstand a dead short and reset to normal when the problem is removed.
I have some experience with industrial electrical systems, and only where internal spikes, generated by the other in-plant devices, are expected, is voltage regulation employed. The hydro supply is expected to deliver voltages within reasonable limits.
If short duration voltage spikes are typical in RV parks, then it would seem smart to provide protection, especially for the converter, if they lack internal protection.

Hope this helps,
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