Getting Frustrated with Keystone - Montana Owners Club

jliveit · 05-26-2011, 10:27 PM

Bought a new 2011 Montana Mountaineer back in middle of September and left for Florida the first part of November for the winter. After getting it packed and ready to head south and it being new I did not have time to get it waxed before we left. Then on a nice December day in Florida I decided to wash and wax and that is when I noticed two spots on the front cap that had been repaired. Very hard to see until you are up on a ladder. The one spot is about 6" in diameter and the outline of the repair is partly covered by the mountaineer decal. The other spot is like a perfect 2" circle with a dimple in the center and in the right light conditions you can see grind marks. While getting some other campers opinions, they also pointed out another area about 8"to 10" by 18" long flat spot/indentation that can be seen and felt. Now I'm really upset and immediately call Keystone. I explained we were in Florida for the winter and asked if when we headed home around the 1st of April if I could stop by the factory to which I was told No. They said I would have to have my dealer look at it first and if they could not repair it they could request that it go back to the factory. So we went 150 miles out of our way going home and stopped at our dealer. The owner along with one of his technicians agreeded that there had been two repairs done and that it indeed did have a flat/indentation in the cap and he would call the factory. After we had not heard anything in April we called the dealer and were told they were working on it and had not heard back from the factory. Now another month gone by and we called as well as sent pictures and the dealer says the factory is not wanting to do anything about it as it is not life treating, or does not leak? This is like telling someone that buys a new car that later finds out their hood has been repaired and has a flat spot were there shouldn't be that it is acceptable. Dealer says he is still trying to get them to do something and to give him another week. Does this sound acceptable ? What do I do next ?

HOOK · 05-27-2011, 12:47 AM

Persevere , constant pressure by phone, by email, by presence at dealer, Polite positive never retreating pressure. When you are right never back down. Worked for me with Goodyear.

Ozz · 05-27-2011, 12:51 AM

This is a tough one, I agree with you they should do something. Look at your, and their options. Is it something you can live with? Is it worth taking the trailer back and demanding another? If so, will they do that. I doubt it.
Would having an option accessory from Keystone installed make you happier? I say happier because this whole ordeal stinks for you. But it may be one of those deals where you inspected the trailer and did not refuse delivery.
Like I said, this is a tough one. Good luck on it, I am sorry this happened to you.

jliveit · 05-27-2011, 04:46 AM

All I want is my front cap to look as it should, not with noticeable repairs and a indentation were it should be rounded. This had to have been a bad mold and will hurt the resale when someone see's what appears to be 2 holes that have been patched in the cap.

kingdaddy · 05-27-2011, 04:48 AM

Are you a Good Sam member? Write to them, they have an advocacy department where they will try to help members and often get results! You can read about some of the members stories in their magazine.
Be polite, but firm and persistant! Sure seems to me like some kind of non-disclosure issue here. Obviously, this trailer was damaged somehow during or just after manufacturing process e.g. during shipping to the dealer. That should be disclosed to you but instead they HOPE you don't see it and then they feel no obligation to point it out? Highly unethical IMO!

Of course, the dealer may not have known about it either...hard to say. Good luck with your efforts!

SlickWillie · 05-27-2011, 05:31 AM

Good Sam is a good idea, but I would be documenting every detail. I would send certified letters to both Keystone and the dealer. That way, they cannot deny knowing about the problem within the warranty time period. Then, depending on how much time you're willing to spend, I would start researching laws in the state where the unit was purchased; perhaps even contacting your state attorney generals office. Time limitations can be critical, so I wouldn't jack around talking to the dealer anymore. Either Keystone step up to the plate, or I would be trying to force their hand.

richfaa · 05-27-2011, 06:20 AM

It is very unusual that the service center would not set up a appointment for you to take it there on your way home that far in advance for warranty work.

"the factory is not wanting to do anything about it as it is not life treating, or does not leak?".... This is also a very unusual statement from Keystone...

Having been to the factory many times it is also hard to see how a front cap with those obvious issues could have been installed on the assembly line.

It would appera the unit was damaged somewhere along the line and repairs made. The repaires you describe could only be made at a repair facility.

suggest you call the service center and have them chcek the VIN of the unit. They can tell you where it has been and if any warranty work has been done on it.

You dealer may know more than he is telling you????

HamRad · 05-27-2011, 11:02 AM

How about some pictures? Would be nice if we could see what you're talking about. Good luck. Dennis

CORattler · 05-27-2011, 01:25 PM

Selling a damaged item while offering (and charging money)as new is FRAUD and deceptive trade practice in my book. I highly suggest that you contact the state attorney generals office and file a complaint. Document everything as though you will be presenting this fraud in court (because you might). I 2nd contacting Good Sam if you are a member. Please let us know what happened and good luck to you.

jliveit · 05-27-2011, 01:46 PM

Well if I knew how to post a picture on here I would ?

RVWheels · 05-27-2011, 02:19 PM

Jliveit,
First post a picture on one of the many online services. Usually they are free. Then once you have the picture posted somewhere on the internet you simply make a link to it when you make a post on the MOC. I believe there are some good tutorials located here on the MOC that help walk you through how to post pictures. And many members are more than happy to help with any particular item you might have questions about. Just ask for assistance. Someone will step up to help.
Thank you, RVWheels

RVWheels · 05-27-2011, 02:20 PM

Jliveit,
First post a picture on one of the many online services. Usually they are free. Then once you have the picture posted somewhere on the internet you simply make a link to it when you make a post on the MOC. I believe there are some good tutorials located here on the MOC that help walk you through how to post pictures. And many members are more than happy to help with any particular item you might have questions about. Just ask for assistance. Someone will step up to help.
Thank you, RVWheels

Phil P · 05-27-2011, 08:29 PM

Hi

My wife and I had a discussion a week or so ago.

We came to the conclusion that even thought we really like the floor plane and many things about the Montana we will not ever purchase anothe Keystone product or any 5th wheel travel trailer that has Lippert components included in its construction.

Phil P

HamRad · 05-27-2011, 11:23 PM

Phil P,
Good luck with that anti Lippert thing. Seems most frames are from Lippert. Plus they provide other parts as well. Well enjoy what you can while you can. Dennis

jliveit · 05-28-2011, 12:01 AM

Ok uploaded to image link now not sure how to link it to here ? So if it works and the picture comes up it the flat spot is the light shadowed area that is diagonal just before the dark shadow at bottom of picture. The other 2 areas that have been repaired would not show up in the picture after the upload.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...efects009.jpg/

Lambchop · 05-28-2011, 02:07 AM

We too, have had a similar repair on our 08 Mountaineer done at the factory prior to delivery. I only noticed this one day when the sun was shinning on it at a certain angle. It was over a year that we owned it. I called the dealer...they told me to call Keystone. The dealer told me no because it was a year old & out of warranty. I never called Keystone. Nobody else ever could see the repair, so we lived with it. I traded it off after two years for another Montana. I know how you feel about the repaired damage, but since you noticed it right away, I would pursue the issue. Your dealer should go to bat for you!

Roy

richfaa · 05-28-2011, 02:51 AM

PhilP..The good news is that you have narrowed the choices significantly. It is said that lippert frames or components are in 60% or more of all rv,s .

I can not see the damage in the photos . Guess I don't know waht to look for. IF that repair was done at the service center or at a facility of one of their off site repair facilities they will have a record of it..follow it up.

old turbo · 05-28-2011, 04:00 AM

Get back with your dealer and find out if he took the original delivery of the unit from the factory, or he picked it up from another dealer. If your dealer is the original see if he still has the delivery inspection sheet that their delivery inspection person fills out and signs. Some dealers do a good job of on delivery inspections while others just walk around the unit and open the door and peek in. This may give you some help. I am a part time rv transporter and I deliver to a lot of dealerships so I see all the different inspection processes.

**Carl n Susan** · 05-28-2011, 07:33 AM

From what I have heard and seen, the factory wouldn't fix a defective cap, they just install a different one and scrap the one with flaws. I highly suspect the damage occurred later down the supply chain and someone had it repaired and doesn't want to disclose it. I doubt the transporter had the time or resources so that leaves the dealer. I would be working with the Montana service desk in Goshen to identify the problem and possible solutions.

jliveit · 05-28-2011, 09:20 AM

Besides the 2 obvious repairs that do not show when I try to upload the pictures I tried the fact that the cap mold has a indented/flat spot is nothing a dealer could be responsible for. As far as the 2 raired spots the dealer is the one that after looking at it said he has seen them before and it is how the factory try's to repair them. The place we stay in Florida there was a person that owns a rv body repair shop that looked at it and said the only solution is a new cap and seal kit and dealer says the same. If it were not for the flat spot in the cap the dealer was going to have me take it to anyone that does fiberglass repair to have it fixed as my dealer does not get into body work.

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