Oh Boy, Frame Flex problem?? - Montana Owners Club

richfaa · 10-19-2007, 07:25 AM

I have been following these latest"frame flex" post with great interest. we have been aware of the "frame flex" via this forum even before we purchased our 3400 in April 0f 06.Checking for any signs of frame flex has been part of our regular inspection routine. We have never had any cause for alarm...till now. Upon real close inspection we noted the caulk along the front overhang bottom seam on the door side was separated a bit, not a lot, perhaps 1/8 inch, maybe less..also the cabinet above the tv in the bedroom (3400) was not flush with the ceiling,, again perhaps 1/8 inch or less. We just hooked up the camper for a weekend camping trip..all the weight is now on the hitch..The caulk along the side had closed up and the cabinet is now flush with the ceiling..We have plenty of interstate miles on the camper..We are NOT happy campers.We will be talking to "Team Montana" Monday.

CRUZIN 2 · 10-19-2007, 07:58 AM

richfaa

Our rig is the very same way it goes back together when the weight is on the truck. We are just keeping an eye on it for now, keep us all posted on it.

jrgwdenner · 10-19-2007, 08:05 AM

That's doesn't sound like a big concern yet, Rich, but bears watching. We all separate a little with age.

richfaa · 10-19-2007, 08:42 AM

I am not in a panic mode but I do want it 'On record" with keystone . We will take pictures and we will want written verification of our concern..just in case. We will take some accurate measurement at the campground this week end and start our documentation from there. Just my opinion but I would do more than ..keep a eye on it. I would advise keystone and get it on record....just in case..

bsmeaton · 10-19-2007, 08:57 AM

Rich, the historical frame flex actually had opposite symptoms. The gap would increase when hitched, and close when unhitched (broken welds).

Sounds like you have the wall separating from the frame syndrome like I had on the 2003 and what Cruzin 2 had. The fix was lower the belly and tighten the lag bolts that attached the wall. Cruzin 2 had a much more sophisticated fix at Keystone I believe.

DHenry · 10-19-2007, 11:49 AM

Rich, my frame flex is the opposite of what you are experiencing. When I had the weight on my truck my molding would drop about 5/16". When it is on the landing gear it would go back to where it should be. I never had a problem with the cabinets inside.

HamRad · 10-19-2007, 01:14 PM

When I had the frame separation problem, like others have indicated, the gap occurs when the rig is on the truck and comes together and is normal when unhooked. I would think 1/8 of an inch is not unusual. And I would start to worry when the symptoms are opposite what they are now.

Good luck.

Dennis

noneck · 10-19-2007, 04:05 PM

Hold on...my issue...not frame flex but weld failure is EXACTLY what Richfaa is describing!! Mine got so bad that the closet wall (inside the TV cabinet) actually crushed into the ceiling. When hitched the seal lines closed and the closet wall would indent into the ceiling (in TV Cabinet). When unhitched the the seal lines would open up about 1/4" and the closet wall would not deflect into the ceiling. Only way to confirm the failure is to pull that belly pan from under the over-hang to expose the tack welds that hold the outside plates that the side walls weight sits on...pounding down the highway makes them fail.

richfaa · 10-19-2007, 04:23 PM

We are now unhitched at a fairgrounds..The camper is on the front landing gear. There is a small gap all the way across the top on the tv cabinet in the bedroom and the caulk is seperated at the bottom front cap back about two feet. When hooked to the truck all this closes up.
I did err in saying I would talking to Team Montana...My 1 year warranty is up. It is my problem and Lipperts problem..We will be talking to Lippert.. Got a good number at the fall rally/////We did buy the extended warranty..

bsmeaton · 10-19-2007, 04:40 PM

Why Lippert Rich? Montana took care of mine at 3 years out. (at least they offered to)

noneck · 10-19-2007, 04:43 PM

Sadly, sounds like the bottom side mouldings need to be pulled, then the belly pan as I bet there are like two to three tac welds broken....just JMHO. This on one side or both?...how about checking at the base of the closet floor checking the intercept to the front wall in hitched state put a pencil mark, then lift off truck and see if this pencil mark moves up away from floor intercept.

DHenry · 10-19-2007, 05:19 PM

noneck, the broken welds that you have described is exactly what happened to my Montana. I have had them all re-welded and added many more additional welds to the flat bar that holds up the wall. I checked the screws that go into the wall and all were so tight that they would not turn again. Even after having it re-welded when on the truck the molding drops about 1/8".

Richfaa, I would contact Team Montana as they are the ones that will take care of your problem, my guess they have an agreement with Lippert to take care of the broken welds and frame flex.

noneck · 10-19-2007, 05:37 PM

Oh, that is not good I put angle iron on mine at front cavity on each side to assist in managing the side load of the walls. JMHO this spot welded plate is not an Engineered solution to maintain sidewall load, knowing these rigs go down some nasty roads.
Mine failed last year when I experienced a severe road deflection that was noted by me and DW going down I95 to RI. I suppose an Airborne hitch would assist in deflecting these impacts but JMHO this design is substandard and is confirmed by the number of MOC entries indicating failure. Hope yours is resolved for the duration of your trailer ownership...I'm hoping mine is and if not I will go back in and do more to make it right. Good luck

richfaa · 10-19-2007, 05:44 PM

I will be silent on any Lippert/ Team Montana agreement.The frame warranty with Lippert is still good on my 06 3400 so I will contact them first. Noneck..I will do as you suggest,,thanks..

Bill and Ann · 10-20-2007, 12:18 AM

Rich: Contact Darrell at the Service Centre. They fixed mine and I was over 2 yrs out of warranty.

richfaa · 10-20-2007, 06:27 AM

To the unexperienced eye(mine) I can find no further evidence of separation anywhere. took a lot of pictures so I can compare at a later date. I understand the service center does great work..Been there they have done that....However.Correcting frame flex or broken wield cost a great deal of money and someone pays the bill.. The service center may do the work and have a agreement of some sort with Lippert. Buttt.. I would find it hard to believe that Keystone, out of the goodness of their heart, would write off the entire expense.Keystone..If I am wrong let me know and an apology will be forth coming.

sreigle · 10-25-2007, 09:13 AM

Rich, ours also was the opposite from yours on our 2003 Montana. It was three years old and Keystone brought in Lippert and between them they fixed it. I believe the frame warranty is five years, not one.

ols1932 · 10-25-2007, 10:14 AM

Rich,
I think you've got a serious problem. The best way to measure how much flex you have is to have the rig sitting on its landing gear. Take a piece of masking tape and run it up and down on the cap above the king pin. Using a straight edge of some sort (a square works best) put a mark on the tape at a point you can remember. Now, using a front end loader or a large hydraulic jack on blocks, just begin to raise the king pin until you see the landing gear raise up. Now, using your straight edge again, make another mark on the tape using the same point on the straight edge that you used for the first mark. The amount of distance between the two marks is the amount of frame flex you have. Ideally, you don't want more than 1/4". Ours had 1 3/4" and it cost me $3400 back in June. Our unit was out of warranty and Keystone denied any claim. Just thought I'd pass this on for you to chew on.

Orv

richfaa · 10-25-2007, 11:38 AM

Thanks Orv.. Right now I don't know if it is frame flex or weld breaks..from what I read here it sounds like wield breaks. My issues are acting opposite from frame flex. We are having a friend who works for a TV dealer in the repair shop take a look at it.. I have a gap when it is ON the landing gear and it goes away when on the hitch????

ols1932 · 10-25-2007, 12:31 PM

Rich,
Weld breaks will show up in frame flex. When they opened our unit up there were no weld breaks but the cross members and the lengthwise frame beams were all operating independently. So when they got them all welded together (like they are supposed to be), the frame flex disappeared.

Orv

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