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Old 08-23-2011, 02:39 AM   #1
Sheepdog
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The Big Bad Wolf

I was disappointed but not surprised to see the other thread on concealed weapons carry be locked down. To many it is not a politically correct subject to discuss. I disagree. Many of us that are Montana Owners travel with firearms for many reasons and knowledge of the laws is important.

I have been around firearms all my life. I am a veteran of the US Army Reserves; served 10 years as a Reserve Deputy Sheriff in WA state, and have been a NRA firearms instructor for 29 years. A firearm to me is like a hammer to a carpenter. I will try to help any MOC member with firearms questions if you send me a PM. There is a great website (Handgunlaw.us) on state by state laws where you can build your own concealed carry map.

There are three kinds of people in this world. Most are sheep; some are big bad wolves; and then there are the Sheepdogs; who are the soldiers, law enforcement officers, and armed concerned citizens, who watch over the sheep and keep the wolves at bay. Sadly, many are sheeple, who are sheep-like people who deny the existence of the wolves, and vote to take away the teeth of the sheepdogs. As you can see my MOC name is SHEEPDOG. I need not explain further. I will close with a quote from George Orwell:
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf".

Be safe, be prepared.
 
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Old 08-23-2011, 02:48 AM   #2
Ozz
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Good post.
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Old 08-23-2011, 03:15 AM   #3
NCFischers
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I agree
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Old 08-23-2011, 03:24 AM   #4
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GRRrrrrr!!
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Old 08-23-2011, 03:53 AM   #5
richfaa
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The subject can quickly turn political and we have seen to many gun threads taken over by wackos who see a conspiracy or threat around every corner.
IMO it is a subject proper for a RV forum same as should I get a bed saver or what kind of tires do you have, etc. As long as the subject remains informational and it rarely does on forums,It is a OK subject IMO.

It would be nice to just answer a posters question with out climbing on the soap box. We have the CC licensed and have for years.


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Old 08-23-2011, 04:10 AM   #6
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Good info.
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Old 08-23-2011, 05:37 AM   #7
Delaine and Lindy
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Sheepdog, great post. I also been around weapons since I was about 8 years old. Got my first rifle at 10 years old and still have it.

Excellent statement:

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf"

There are so many people will stand by at let someone else protect them and their familys. Serious time means serious people will step up.

I haven't fired a weapon in anger since 1968. But I still have the ability and the means. I never owned a handgun until after I retired from the Army. But upon entering civilian life, it didn't take long to realize a Man has to be ready to protect himself and his family.

Its very easy to determine whats legal and how to prepare yourself for the Future. Times are a changing... The Trails may become dangerous... Be prepared.
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Old 08-23-2011, 07:58 AM   #8
Trailer Trash 2
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by richfaa

The subject can quickly turn political and we have seen to many gun threads taken over by wackos who see a conspiracy or threat around every corner.
IMO it is a subject proper for a RV forum same as should I get a bed saver or what kind of tires do you have, etc. As long as the subject remains informational and it rarely does on forums,It is a OK subject IMO.

It would be nice to just answer a posters question with out climbing on the soap box. We have the CC licensed and have for years.

Copy and paste Rich? same thing you said on the other post regarding a different form of Protection


I believe that a civilised conversation can be had about the topic that was locked down, if it was, I haven't looked yet, but I will after this post.
But rules are rules and we should comply. its like living in a condo you can go to meetings and make a statement and it can be denided. Then if it bothers that person that much then he or she must do what they think is best for them......move on...

I guess a PM, phone call or e-mail is going to be the proper way to talk about things that bother others.




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I guess it wasnt the topic about self protection
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Old 08-23-2011, 08:08 AM   #9
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What Orwell said, in "Notes on Nationalism", was, "Those who 'abjure' violence can only do so because others are
committing violence on their behalf." He said it in reference to pacifists, specifically.

Bob
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Old 08-23-2011, 08:40 AM   #10
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I'm guessing that since this subject is not covering how a weapon is carried, stored or licensed while in the Monty, this one is doomed to the lockdown real soon.

Sheepdog's post is a good one but in his first sentence he admitted not being surprised by the lockdown and therefore why continue and cause further discussions on the subject that are just gonna cause another lockdown? We know that veterans, officers, service personnel, and even former convicts might be members of this RV membership, but I don't need to read any more about it than what's pertinent to this forum. When some members start posting possibly irrelevent, sensitive, or political posts, expect a lockdown. The administrators of this forum DECIDE that.

I did not ask for any lockdown and never would because this is NOT my forum or will ever be in my messages. I am just a participant and respect that the administrators may feel that some posts need locking down. I am pretty sure that the specific administrator is only the one that drew the short straw and posted the lockdown but I am pretty sure it was NOT a solo decision. We don't get to make the rules, we just play the game or leave. It's happened many times and will happen again. Besides our Freedom of Speech reasoning when we post, there's also the Freedom of the administrator's to instill their Freedom of NON-Speech too.

Nothing to complain about and certainly nothing more needs to be said. Now I'll await a lockdown on this one too.

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Old 08-23-2011, 09:54 AM   #11
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I like learning from others and trying to understand their viewpoints. Sitting around the campfire would seem to me to be the appropriate section to post non RV specific discussions.

(SEE: A great place to Chit Chat Drop in here and discuss the many things that have NOTHING to do with RV's/RVing.
DO NOT MAKE POLITICAL THREADS/POSTS OR LINKS TO ANYTHING POLITICAL, REFERENCES OR LINKS TO THINGS RACIAL OR ETHNIC.
The Administrative Staff at MOC reserves the right to remove any thread or post we feel may be hurtful or offensive to other members.)

Personally, I would see no reason to lock a thread unless it violated the terms of use as stated in the forum user agreement. Restricting discussion otherwise would seem, IMHO, unwarranted. So far, I haven't seen a undue amount of thread locking on this very enjoyable forum. Good manners, courtesy and genteel consideration are hallmarks of forum good citizenship and always in fashion.

Since I'm not the king, I don't make the decisions here but am glad to be able to post my 2 cents. Thanks administrative staff for all the good things you do here.

Good post Sheepdog. I'm in your corner on this subject.
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Old 08-23-2011, 12:48 PM   #12
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I agree with all the above posts but was told IN RED that "direct attacks" against admins would not be tolerated.
Obviously my definition of direct attack differs. A civil discourse is just that.
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Old 08-23-2011, 06:21 PM   #13
Carl n Susan
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Jdrobone

I agree with all the above posts but was told IN RED that "direct attacks" against admins would not be tolerated.
Obviously my definition of direct attack differs. A civil discourse is just that.
I don't have a dog is this fight but I am pretty sure "did not deserve to be hi-jacked by over-zealous administrator" is inflammatory and pretty close to a direct attack.
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Old 08-24-2011, 03:51 AM   #14
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I've been around here practically forever and would like to offer my nickel's worth. Hopefully it will be taken in the spirit offered.

I don't have a problem with the primary topic of the original thread. But I was not all that surprised it was locked. I do think *this* thread seems to be oriented towards blasting those who locked the original thread. Just my opinion after reading through the thread.

Having had more than a few discussions with moderators and administrators over the years, some of them what might be termed a bit heated, there are a couple of things I'd like to offer. These are things I was told.

First, this is a privately owned forum. The "king," as someone put it, has the final say over all things MOC. **ALL** things. Whether I, or you, like it or not is totally irrelevant.

Second, I think this is one of the most civil forums of its type on the entire internet. I attribute that to those who do the policing and controlling of the forum. I may not always like the way they do things but overall they've done a very good job.

Third, our participation, each and every one of us, can and will be curtailed at any time by the moderators if we prove to be "bad citizens" in their eyes. We have absolutely no control over that since this is a privately owned and controlled forum.

Last, our participation, each and every one of us, is also voluntary on our part. If we don't like what's going on, each and every one of us is free to leave. I know it's a play on words, but nobody but nobody is putting a gun to our heads to make us participate.

I know my thoughts probably ticked off some people. But, they are based on what I've been told, have observed over the years, and also my opinions. So be it. I've learned an awful lot from the people in this forum and have made many friends here, some who will be lifelong friends.

I'm just happy the forum is maintained to be a good place to be. If someone wants to bash those who have made it so, go to it. MOC has been a **good friend** to me and I'm not going to beat up on a **good friend** who happens to sometimes do something I don't particularly like.
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Old 08-24-2011, 04:39 AM   #15
richfaa
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Yup..Like it or not it is the way Steve says and it ain't so bad.
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Old 08-24-2011, 09:09 AM   #16
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Well said Steve. It is what it is.
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Old 08-24-2011, 09:42 AM   #17
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You're right Steve, no bout a dout it. I don't believe you upset anyone here by telling it like it is.
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Old 08-24-2011, 02:11 PM   #18
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Sheepdog, I'm with you on your original posting.
(I state this as a 60-year gun owner, NRA instructor, previous serviceman and with previous state police experience.)
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