New Model - Montana Owners Club

hookman · 03-08-2010, 02:46 PM

There is a new model of Montana. The Montana High Country. Is this model going to be add to our banner on the main page.

Clemson1881 · 03-08-2010, 03:28 PM

We were discussing the High Country the other day. They are made to be lighter in weight than Montanas or Mountaineers. Unless I had a truck on the borderline weight wise in towing capacity I would opt for the regular models.

bubbabc · 03-09-2010, 03:01 AM

I really wish they would tell us more about the new Hellium technology. They use the word frequently but make no mention of what it actually is or the materials used in the building process. My way of thinking was always lighter is cheaper?? I'll be anxious to see how this new process holds up after a few years bouncing down the road.

sreigle · 03-09-2010, 08:07 AM

It says Montana in big letters on it so I would guess it would automatically be part of this forum, just like any other new model. I see there's also a Cougar High Country, also made by Keystone. I wonder what that's all about? I guess High Country is how they identify the lighter weight models?

Champ_49 · 03-09-2010, 01:11 PM

I've tried doing a search on helium technologies and for some reason I get nothing so far on it. Does anyone know the proper term for this new type framework? I am very interested in this.

Dave

**Rondo** · 03-09-2010, 05:37 PM

I posted a reply about the High Country last week or maybe two weeks ago that we went through here in Omaha at the Boat, Sports and Travel Show here. The one they had on the floor here was a 333RL, I think! It was very nice but the only thing we didn't like about it was the kitchen cabinets. They are two different colors. The bottome is cherry, I think and the tops are white or an antique white or cream. The flyer I picked up shows three floor plans but the High Country website by Keystone only shows two. The 333 has two bunk setups in the rear with a closet between then AND a half bath(stool and sink) back there also. The 343 floor plan on the website has the same as a 3400 or similar unit for a floor plan which I'd like to see. As I said we were interested in it BUT we didn't like the idea of the two tones of cabinets in the kitchen. Almost looks like they ran out of one style and put in another in to fill in! Go to keystonerv.com and check it out. Click on the fiver just below the Montana fiver. They are interesting and as I said I'd like to see the other floor plan and possibly the third IF they decide to make it! As of right now, we have no use for the bunks! The half bath would be nice however!

richfaa · 03-10-2010, 03:03 AM

IMO Helium technology is just a marketing term meaning..lighter.. It would be poor marketing to market the camper as light as light to most folks = cheap. Helium sounds exotic. however helium is low cost... If you get one of those campers will your voice be squeaky when you are inside.

PapaBeav · 03-10-2010, 03:56 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

IMO Helium technology is just a marketing term meaning..lighter.. It would be poor marketing to market the camper as light as light to most folks = cheap. Helium sounds exotic. however helium is low cost... If you get one of those campers will your voice be squeaky when you are inside.

Very good Rich!

**Rondo** · 03-10-2010, 05:39 AM

No but you might look like Mickey or Minnie when you come back outside!

clarkandsheila · 03-10-2010, 06:42 AM

Helium - Maybe they are intended to float over the mountains. To stay on the ground you need the truck to chase it and to carry the weights to hold it in place. Hmmm.

bubbabc · 03-11-2010, 03:28 AM

I am thinking the High Country is constructed with the same materials used in the Open range or the Evergreen units. They are made with recycled materials which is styrofome and plastic including the floors and roof. Open Range advertises their units will never rot from water infiltration. I am very anxious to see how this new technology holds up over time.

nailbender · 03-11-2010, 04:57 AM

Adding another model with the Montana name on it, could that be Keystone's way of maintaining the " #1 selling RV in it's class".

Wild Horse · 03-11-2010, 05:30 AM

this article isn;t much help:
http://www.rvbusiness.com/tag/helium-technology/

This one's interesting....

http://www.elementskateboards.com/ne...interview.html

**Rondo** · 03-11-2010, 06:02 AM

I hope by increasing the number of Montanas coming off the line they don't cut back on the final inspections and quality of work put into them. If they do, they won't be #1 very long! This is MHO only and I'm sure I'll catch some flack off this anyway!!

Buffpilot · 03-31-2010, 06:13 AM

I am also interested in the new technology, my web browsing uncovered a new foam used in skateboards that is lighter and stronger. They also used Helium in the article. Lighter and stronger would be a benefit as we always carry to much stuff when traveling.

lasater · 03-31-2010, 07:35 AM

Wild Horse,
I found this article which gives a little more information AND shows the 3rd floorplan.

http://www.roamingtimes.com/rvreport...fth-wheel.aspx

Buffpilot · 03-31-2010, 07:56 AM

OOps! sorry Wildhorse did not see your link to the skateboard article.

Champ_49 · 04-01-2010, 01:11 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by bubbabc

I really wish they would tell us more about the new Hellium technology. They use the word frequently but make no mention of what it actually is or the materials used in the building process. My way of thinking was always lighter is cheaper?? I'll be anxious to see how this new process holds up after a few years bouncing down the road.

bubbabc, just something I thought of when you stated "lighter is cheaper" is not necesarily true. If you want light weight and stronger than normal steel then titanium steel is the way to go. Its even lighter than aluminum, but it is far from cheap lol.

PackersBackers · 02-03-2011, 04:35 AM

I just added a topic about the High Country HE models on "General Discussions about our Montanas", you may wish to read. In addition, the flyer the RV sales rep gave us stated, "What is Helium Technology? Helium Technology is a proprietary process developed by Keystone RV Company that utilizes new designs and manufacturing technologies as well as new construction materials to significantly reduce the weight of the RV without sacrificing strength, cargo capacity or features. Helium Technology provides significant weight savings of up to 2,500 pounds compared to traditional coach construction. With Helium Technology, fuel economy is improved and wear and tear on the tow vehicle is decreased." Besides the description of the exterior color, finish, and graphics, the list of standard features lists: Easy set remote control system; Equa fles upgraded suspension system; drop frame with large pass through storage; heated and enclosed underbelly and tanks; max turn front cap and radius frame with hitch vision; enclosed exterior convenience center, radius rear fiberglass cap; two tone raised panel interior cabinets (glazed cherry and glazed antique white (which doesn't look all that bad); decorative iron curtain rods with contemporary window treatments; elegant solid surface kitchen countertop; three new elegantly attractive decors; industry leading floorplans." The dinette and office chairs are lighter but appear to be well constructed. Cabinetry is real wood. The 343 model we looked at (floor plan much like the 3400RL which we have; 2009 model) had a double frig/freezer and one-room large bathroom with linen closet. Bath sink is quite unique; looks like a heavy duty green glazed bowl on top of an attractive base cabinet. The rep explained that the HC roof is domed to a greater degree than other Montana models, creating a more efficient run off and less snow accumulation (we live in WI and do not cover our RV. The 343 also has vinyl flooring throughout the kitchen area, including the area in front of the peninsula and under the dinette... nice feature. Bedroom and living room are carpeted. Sofa and two recliners appear to be of same quality as our 3400 and the sofa contains the queen sized airbed. The bedroom has a wall mounted HD LCD tv. The dresser at the foot of the bed contains three nice roomy drawers, rather than the six small ones in our 3400. In the corner, where the drawers and pull out tv are located in our 3400, there is a closet/wardrobe with washer/dryer prep. The full wardrobe is still cedar lined. Four slides on the 343 just like the 3400. Interior fuse panel is much easier to access as it is in the kitchen behind a small base cabinet door.
The sales rep told us of other changes which have lightened the unit, but I didn't write them down and they won't come to me just now. My husband is thrilled about the lighter weight. We have a GMC Heavy Duty diesel with tow package, and he has always been concerned with "pin" weight, though no one else ever mentions it (even the sales rep wasn't sure what the pin weight would be on any model on the lot). It seems to be hitch weight to me but what do I know.

There are a few other minor differences between the 3400 and the 343 RLHE but are not significant. One other more major difference, which I, Judy, happen to like; is the replacement of the six door pantry to the left of the frig, with wall and base cabinetry and a countertop. These are more narrow than the other cabinetry and countertop, but because the stairs to the bedroom is where the closet is in the 3400, the new counter and cabinetry is longer. This appears to provide the same amount of cabinetry space as the pantry does and provides extra counter space. To me, that's a plus. The double frig/frzr reduces the countertop space between frig and stove, and eliminates the small kitchen window. Not a problem for me. My biggest issue with the kitchen layout in both the 3400RL and the 343 RLHE is the stove, which requires one to actually get down on the floor when lighting the oven pilot.
Hope this helps. I still plan to do more research on the helium technology as it's not explained that well in the flyer.
Happy Travels and have a great day!!
Judy and Steve

Art-n-Marge · 02-03-2011, 06:21 AM

Judy & Steve, very nice writeup on the HE technology. I've read much of this myself. It almost makes no sense that all trailers aren't built that way, but in due time, I suppose.

I just wanted to comment on pin weight. "Pin weight" is the same as "hitch" weight when referring to a fifth wheel. Just like Tongue weight is the same as "hitch" weight when carried on the bumper. They are both called hitch weight when you think about it, but saying Pin weight means one is specifically discussing a Fifth wheel.

It is very difficult to know what the pin weight is going to be which is why salespeople shy away from it. Fifth wheels of any kind can carry 15% to 25% of the fifth wheel's GVWR. That is a huge swing. It's even worse for a residential fifth wheel (compared to a horse or utility fifth wheels) because when empty, it's empty in the front cargo areas and can make the pin weight very light.

It's easy to know what the unladen weight of a trailer coming off the lot weighs as it comes from the factory. The manufacturer has also been able to determine what the maximum gross the trailer can support based on construction, materials and design. What nobody knows (including sales people) is how us owners are going to use it, where we are going to store all our stuff and how much all these items weigh. If we store items in the middle or back of the rig, that weight goes only to the tires. If stored in the front of the trailer tires, then the weight starts to sit on the pin.

Members here and in other forums have posted their pin weights from 1800# to over 3,200# because the weight adds up quickly as we load up the front storage compartments. This is a swing of 1400# and can make the difference between a 3/4, 1 ton or dually for how much the rear axle is carrying. My rig has a pin weight of 2,570# or 19% of my GVW of 13,450# not 13% like what the brochure says and the salesman told me. A sales person won't touch this because it's ultimately the owner's responsibility for removing load or shifting the load.

The HE technology means that the size of the cargo areas remains the same (the strength is maintained), but one must still keep the weight under the GVWR. This could increase the percentage of the pin weight and therefore create a concern on the TV's rear axle. The good news is that with HE technology, because the GTWR is lighter, this should help alleviate the actual weight on the rear axle of the TV.

The summation is that the weight differences when looking at Gross Trailer weight are much less in percentage, than when looking at the Pin weight percentages carried on the TV. This might stop a few sales opportunities which sales person will avoid. Example, my trailer weighed 12,040# when empty and 13,450 with all the gear or a gain of 12%. However, the pin went from 1855# per Montana brochure and 2,570 or a gain difference of 38%! That weight gain of almost 38% sits on the rear axle. In my case, my 3/4 ton truck now had to be a 1 ton because that 715 lbs of difference cause the rear axle to exceed its rear axle weight rating. I was able to put a Ford 1 ton rear end to solve my problem, but not everyone can get this lucky. Others have also done this successfully, but it depends on the TV and RV combination. For example, if you have a 3/4 ton Toyota Tundra it cannot be upgraded.

This one weight location has been a common problem area for 5er owners. For example, all my other weight numbers were well within the ratings. Only my pin weight gave me a problem. If there were going to be a next time, I would calculate 25% of the GTWR of the trailer, then weigh my TV for its ACTUAL weight, then add this pin weight to the rear axle. The other problem most people do is rely on a brochure to tell what the truck weighs and you'll be surprised how wrong you could be. My truck actually weighs 8140# just me and a full tank of gas. With passengers, gear and the 5er hitch, the TV weighs 450# more and only 80# is on the front axle, the rest sits on the rear axle. Then add the pin weight of my rig, well you get the idea.

Sorry about the long explanation, but hopefully you can understand why sales people don't like to talk about it too much. It could make the difference between and Sale or not. Not everyone plans to buy a new truck when they go shopping for a new trailer. The HE technology will sure help with this because the total weights will be less to deal with compared to other Montanas. I actually bought a new truck when we purchased our Monty and I was still off. I'm passing on my "experience" because I was not "educated".

You may also like: