Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > GENERAL DISCUSSIONS > General Discussions about our Montanas
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-08-2014, 01:26 PM   #1
KathyandDave
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Shelburne
Posts: 688
M.O.C. #8693
Send a message via MSN to KathyandDave
Frame flex and tire failure?

I met a man who pulls a very expensive SOB and is retired from a farm and construction equipment manufacturer (he could compare notes with Ron Ames). In 2010, he bought a Big Sky and sold it seven months later because he was dissatisfied with its frame stability. He had three blowouts. He told me the following:
Prior to some year, say, a decade ago (not sure exactly), the Montana frames were made by Leyland (check my spelling). They were made of stacked welded square tubing, which resists twisting by virtue of the welds between the tubes. Lippert bought Leyland, then introduced the I-beam frames we have now. The man claims that the I-beams twist every time the springs deflect, so the side walls of the tires take an unbalanced load and distort. In time, they heat up. So, the frame construction contributes to the wear on the tires causing them to fail prematurely. The tire issues may not be entirely due to bad tires.
It's an interesting assertion. Has anybody heard of this?
 
KathyandDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2014, 01:53 PM   #2
Phil P
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Okeechobee
Posts: 2,150
M.O.C. #11206
Hi

The metal structures engineer that I have worked with for over 40 years passed away last Christmas. He had looked at the frame under our trailer and was very uncomplimentary of Lippert. He even said they didn’t know or weren’t complying with some very basic welding processes. He went as far as to say there were ways to make the frame stronger and lighter using the same amount of material.

Phil P
__________________
2009 Montana 3665RE
2009 Duramax 3500 DRW quad cab
personal web page https://www.sallyscoffees.com
If you get a page not available then remove the "s" after HTTP
Phil P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2014, 01:56 PM   #3
8.1al
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Benson
Posts: 3,121
M.O.C. #1658
I don't know who made the early Montana frames but I do remember that there were enough problems with them that there was a recall. I don't know what that does to his theory
8.1al is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2014, 03:23 PM   #4
mlh
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salem
Posts: 7,528
M.O.C. #2283
Wonder if his tire failures had any thing to do with Chinabomb tires???
Lynwood
__________________
www.harrellsprec.com
Lynwood Harrell
323 RL HC 2008 F250
mlh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2014, 04:42 PM   #5
steelpony5555
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Copperas Cove
Posts: 1,426
M.O.C. #12096
I doubt the tire failures have much to do with the frames, but has everything to do with the weight and cheap tires. These tires fail on lots of rigs not just Montana's with bad frames.....
steelpony5555 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2014, 05:02 PM   #6
DQDick
Site Team
 
DQDick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Wilsey
Posts: 18,799
M.O.C. #11455
My vote is with the tires.
__________________
Dick, Joyce, Diego, Picatso and Gustav
2017 3720 RL, and 2013 HC 343RL
Pullrite Hitch, IS, Disk Brakes, 3rd AC, Winegard Traveler, Bathroom door mod, Dometic 320, couch for desk swap, replaced chairs, sun screens, added awnings, etc.
DQDick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2014, 05:22 PM   #7
JandC
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Frostproof, FL USA
Posts: 2,362
M.O.C. #13272
Apparently G rated tires compensate for these junk frames that are on our Montanas. I would think any metal structures engineer with 40 years experience would have to inspect more than just the little bit of visible framing under an assembled Montana before stating they didn't know what they were doing or not complying with basic welding processes.
__________________
Previous: 2008 Montana 3400RL & 2014 3725RL
Current: Full Time 2022 SOB TT Toy Hauler
JandC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2014, 09:03 PM   #8
Overlord
Montana Fan
 
Overlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: gresham
Posts: 489
M.O.C. #11202
I call Hooey on that theory. Never had a blowout(or sidewall bubble, or a flat) with close to 30,000 miles @ 90psi on the original GY E-rated Marathons with 5er at close to max gross weight of ~16k lbs. Kept a close eye on pressures with a TPMS, as I think under inflation is the biggest tire killer. Curb hopping and road hazards are big on the list too.

When they aged out(still had plenty of tread), I upgraded to GY G614's just for the extra margin of load range and a little more peace of mind. I run the G614's @ 110 psi always. If I notice any excessive wear on the center of the tires I will reduce the psi, but so far so good with about 6k on the new tires.
Overlord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2014, 12:07 AM   #9
Phil P
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Okeechobee
Posts: 2,150
M.O.C. #11206
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by JandC

I would think any metal structures engineer with 40 years experience would have to inspect more than just the little bit of visible framing
I didn’t say he had 40 years experience I said I had worked with him for over 40 years.

With the under belly and the cover under the front of the trailer removed to look at the frame work the hitch is fastened to you can see just about all the frame there is. Then there were the pictures I sent him when the frame failed at the rear spring hangar.

By the way he was also a certified welder. I found this out by accident when reviewing some records on the first job he did for us.

Phil P

__________________
2009 Montana 3665RE
2009 Duramax 3500 DRW quad cab
personal web page https://www.sallyscoffees.com
If you get a page not available then remove the "s" after HTTP
Phil P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2014, 12:13 AM   #10
Phil P
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Okeechobee
Posts: 2,150
M.O.C. #11206
Hi

The remark about the G rated tires I find pretty much on target. I don’t see how the frame flexing in the areas we are all having problems with would flex the axels enough to work the tire side walls.

Phil P
__________________
2009 Montana 3665RE
2009 Duramax 3500 DRW quad cab
personal web page https://www.sallyscoffees.com
If you get a page not available then remove the "s" after HTTP
Phil P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2014, 03:51 AM   #11
jcurtis934
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Pensacola (mail forward service)
Posts: 3,198
M.O.C. #13740
Lippert still has the better frames that are made from stacked rectangular steel tubing that is welded together...they get used by DRV in their fifth wheel trailers. And yes, they are heavier and couldn't be pulled by a F250 or Ram/Chevy 2500...heck, even the F350 would be on the edge of not having enough umph... Okay, someone could pull it, but I wouldn't want to be on the same highway. John
__________________
2012 F350 6.7 L dually, 2013 3800RE with 6 pt leveling, Sumitomo 17.5" load range h tires, Samsung 18 cu ft residential fridge, 8k Morryde I.S. with disc brakes. Full timing since 2012.
jcurtis934 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2014, 04:29 AM   #12
KathyandDave
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Shelburne
Posts: 688
M.O.C. #8693
Send a message via MSN to KathyandDave
To various points:
I have seen for myself the inside of a weld where the hanger broke off the frame. It was rusty inside the weld.
I, too, meticulously kept our weight down and our pressure up and still our tire failed. We now run on G614's with TPMS at 80 lbs, the chart pressure for our measured weight.
The flexing described is in the smaller beam, behind the front beam, that is connected the the front and back hangers and the centre post. I've noticed that there are small gussets welded between the web and the flange there, maybe to stabilize it for cheap? Morryde makes a beefier add-on for better support.
DRV is the man's SOB, three axles, Morryde IS, pulled with an F450.
KathyandDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Frame flex jcurtis934 Montana Problems, Problem Solving & Technical Help 11 06-01-2020 05:41 AM
Frame Flex DQDick Repairs & Service 23 04-21-2019 05:53 PM
Frame flex/broken frame gjetzen Montana Problems, Problem Solving & Technical Help 5 05-08-2016 01:42 PM
Frame flex? timberframe General Discussions about our Montanas 55 09-20-2013 04:16 PM
Frame Flex? arcateq Montana Problems, Problem Solving & Technical Help 8 04-30-2012 06:24 AM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.