Satellite hook-up questions 2006 3400RL

[Dean A Van Peursem]

Michael:

Wow, your 2006 3400RL is wired different than ours unless I am misunderstanding what you have written. Our 3400RL is a late 2006 version. To start with we have two plates with F connectors. A double setup on top and a single setup below it with a label in between stating "Cable/Satellite. It sure wasn't and still isn't clear to me which connectors the label is referring to or if all of them. All I know for sure right now is the bottom connector of the dual setup above the label is where the Satellite signal comes in from the outside.

I just read a posting that "richfaa" made some time back on another topic as follows:

Was fooling with the Sat/TV/Antenna hookups today.....strange... It works as stated..remove the jumper..bottom terminal goes to the sat in connection on the sat receiver//top termainal to the tv out on the Sat receiver..main tv works fine....so does the bedroom Tv..of course the booster has to be off or nothing works..So the bedroom tv is not independent of the main Tv..they will both work on sat(same chan of course)"


Now this makes some sense to me.

[snfexpress]

Thedual plate is where my direct connection to the outside is. Yes, top for me is outside and bottom is to TV in bedroom. I suspect Harry or Bob or whomever at factory chooses top or bottom for direct to outside depending on day of week, astrological alignment or who knows what!

Mine is a 2006.

[Dean A Van Peursem]

Ok, now we are in sync. However, there are at least two different versions of the 2006 3400RL. Our late 2006 3400RL has the Moryde suspension and the mirror on the nose to help hooking up the 5th wheel. We saw earlier 2006 3400RL's that didn't have those features. I suspect there are other changes along the 2006 production run but those are two I can think of at the moment. I don't know if changes were made in the TV signal wiring intentionally or not. I can see how an installer could reverse the in/out polarity of the top double plate connectors quite easily.

However, I come from an industry where that would never be allowed so am going through a bit of cutural shock on RV wiring. :-)

[richfaa]

Sat bottom, TV top in our late model 3400..Wonder what it says on the hook up sheet at the factory.. Maybe some of the workers no speaka da English???

[Montana_1240]

quote:Originally posted by Dean A Van Peursem
I don't know what the amplifier in the rear closet does when the switch is in the off position but when "on" it feeds the amplified signal from the roof antenna to both the rear TV directly and to the front single coax connector. Then the splitter connects to it and feeds the roof antenna TV signal Amplified or not out one splitter coax connection and radio signal out the other splitter coax connection to the Quest 3000.

Dean,

That amplifier feeds the satellite signal through to both TVs, ONLY WHEN IT’S OFF, (and only when that jumper is on,) and you are using the third connector behind the main TV. If you turn the amp on, it will break the DC path, which is necessary for the dish’s LNBF, and the satellite receiver will cease to function.

What it does when on is to amplify whatever signal the antenna gets. It’s required only in cases where you don’t have cable, or satellite, and the stations aren’t right next door to your site, so you’re having to use the antenna. (Just a reminder…Always remember to crank that thing down before moving, too!) The amp's output, (be it satellite dish's DC input when off, or the broadcast antenna's amplified signal when on,) is what is on the third connector behind the main TV.

Be aware if you ever connect to cable at a campsite, that if you turn it on, first it will somewhat mess up your own reception, but secondly it will also feed back into the campground system, messing up the neighbors’ cable reception.

I have a feeling that you’re seldom going to be using that amp.

quote:Originally posted by Dean A Van Peursem
If this assumption is correct the Cable or Satellite signal isn't connected to that amplifier in the rear ever. Only the roof antenna. OR Maybe in the "off" position it is has a gain of X1 for the cable signal and can be switched to have gain for the roof antenna. ???

I think you got it.

quote:Originally posted by Dean A Van Peursem
A clear drawing including what the switch does and how it is connected would really help here. In any case the single coax connection doesn't really help for this requirement and I don't understand how the normal cable connection feeds both the front and rear TV's unless it gets fed to the front like the roof antenna signal is. I just don't follow this wiring yet! Help???

Well, since some of the Amish workers on the line don’t do much reading, there is no set instruction sheet for their wiring, or construction. I had no idea that some outside cable runs would be connected to the opposite side of that dual panel. (Live and learn.) But it’s no great surprise. I’m guessing we’d all be in for a chuckle if we were to compare our AC and DC breaker and fuse panels, and which one goes to which circuit. (If anyone could decipher the scribblings found thereon, that is.)

All in all, the system will feed the exact input to both TVs. It has a solid DC path with the amp off, so satellite dish signals can reach both TVs. And, when you turn the amp on, it sends the faint antenna signal through, boosted to a usable level, to both TVs.

Because some satellite receivers need two inputs from the dish, (my TiVo does,) the system, as it arrives from the factory, lacks the necessary second input. I installed my own dual input panel on the side of my entertainment center/desk slide. Presently, and whenever we stay where there’s cable, I have three pieces of coax hooked up out there.

So you won’t be the only one needing to modify the standard way things are done. I’m guessing that when satellite users far outnumber cable or local broadcast users, Monties will come with something more along the lines of what we need. And it might just happen in the middle of a model year. Meanwhile, this configuration suits what seems to be the majority of customers. Something most businesses strive to do.

Steve

[Dean A Van Peursem]

Here is my "one-time" experience using the TV wiring as it came from the factory when using the roof antenna only. With the switch in the "off" position we received roof antenna signal to both TV's. Albeit weak and almost unusable. With the switch "on" we were able to get two channels quite clear on both TV's.

Now that tells me that the amplifier input is connected to the roof antenna and the amplifier output is connected to both TV's when "on". Now when the switch is "off" the amplifier gain is switched to X1 or the amplifier is completely bypassed and roof antenna signal is sent to both TV's w/o amplification. Electrically, Cable or satelite signal cannot override an amplifiers output from the roof antenna so I suspect the amplifier output is disconnected by the switch when in the "off" position and then the cable or satellite signal is sharing the line with the roof antenna signal. Since the cable/satellite signal is so much stronger than the roof antenna signal it becomes the predominate signal.

Then when one hooks up the cable or Satellite signal on the outside of the RV it is fed to the bottom connector of the dual outlet. Then we remove the jumper and connect the bottom connector to the satelite receiver sat/in. Then the theory is we take the video out of the satellite receiver and connect it to the top connector on the dual connector plate. That sends signal to the bedroom TV and then is sent back to the cabinet over the TV on the third single connector. Then the splitter sends that signal to the Quest 3000 to drive the living room TV and the surround sound speaker system. If this assumption is correct one should be able to get complete surround sound/Video capability from both the DVD player and the Cable/Satellite system without having to switch cables around while watching either. To use the roof antenna again the outside cable/satellite cable would need to be removed and the jumper re-installed.

So to oversimplify this, think of putting the satellite receiver in place of the jumper. That is all there is to it.

[Montana_1240]

Dean,

On first read, it seems like you’ve got it down pat.

When that amplifier if off, it seems like the antenna is electrically removed from the wiring. Not physically. (Probably done internally inside the amp, with relays.)

I never passed my receiver’s output through either the first two Quest 1000’s I’ve had, nor this Sony home theater system. But it sounds like that’s the way to go for your preferences. (I did, however, run the TV's Audio Out signals to the home theater's TV Audio In connectors, and can listen to the TV's sound in surround if I want to.) And I do believe that’s probably the reasoning behind placing that short jumper in that place to start with…So users who do want to use their receiver for both TVs can do just what you’ve done.

And, since you’ll be using the Quest’s surround speakers for TV, they’re always there for when you play a DVD, as well. In fact, that’s the only audio you’ll get when playing a DVD, I believe. The TV’s speakers are not usable on my configuration, when playing a DVD, because the output from the DVD is only on the video cable.

I hope this gets you going. Sounds like you had it all right, but just needed to rationalize it in your mind.

Steve

[Dean A Van Peursem]

In the process of trying to work this out I have been introduced to a problem we all have trying to mutually communicate when we are dealeing with different model Montana's, different factory wiring even within the same Montana model but even more confusing is how Direct TV and Dish Network configure their systems from a hardware point of view.

We have a triple LNB dish but only one RG-6 cable running into the house to the receiver. If we wanted to be able to hookup two tv's we could do so w/o an additional receiver but both TV's would always have to be on the same channel. If we wanted to have independent control on each TV we would need to add a second receiver with an card that needs to be authorized and pay another $5.00 a month. However, it appears that the way Dish network handles this is that on a dual LNB dish two cables need to be run from the dish to two different receivers to have two independant TV's hooked up.

If this is true, that for me alone would exclude using the Dish Network in an RV environment. I know of no RV's that provide for two satelite dish cable inputs implying that a modification to the RV is necessary. I would be personally very hesitant about installing another inlet, drilling holes, etc because with my luck I would run into something critical drilling a hole. Especially when there is another better solution.

I am using the same receiver from the house (that works with the triple LNB dish) but using an older single LNB dish with the RV. The reciver can automatically configure itself for either dish to be operational. Or can be manually configured. From what I can figure out in the Direct TV system the multiple LNB's on the Dish are setup to pick up multiple satellites but fed to the receiver on a common cable. In our case when using the single LNB dish with the RV we only lose one channel and that is RFD TV (different satellite than the main channels) which we don't watch that much any way. As far as I know we haven't purchased programming that requires the third LNB on the dish but could in the future, I guess, if we wanted to.

So where I am leading here is if Dish Network requires two cables to be run from the dish to the receiver in either house or RV applications that would be enough to cause me to switch to Direct TV. I have also heard the Dish Network dishes are harder to set up because a third element is required in setting up the dish - Skew. That isn't an issue with Direct TV on a single LNB but may be if one were using a multiple LNB dish.
I set up our single LNB dish twice last week with nothing more than a bubble level to get the stand level first. Then set the elevation using the markings on the dish bracket and then setting the direction based on the compass reading. I hit dead-on both times. Maybe I should have been spending my time instead in a casino! :-) And these were the first times I have ever tried to do this other than practicing at the house before we left in the RV.

So in my experience I have not needed an extra signal strength meter outside. There is one built into the receiver which can be set to emit a sound to help in alignment but it really wasn't needed. I was a bit dumbfounded that I had gotten so close manually that I testd whether I could improve the alignment using the tone. The maximum I could improve the signal was 4 out of a total of 90. Not worth messing with.

So if you are thinking about drilling a hole in the side of your RV for a second dish cable, there may be a better solution. If you have completed your contractual agreement length, the other supplier will be probably more than happy to swith you to their system at no charge as long as you sign up for a new years contract. Finding a used or even new dish with single cable output should not be that difficult. I think I've seen new ones for less than $60.00 including a stand. My preference would be to spend $60 on a dish rather than drill a hole in the wall of the RV. YMMV.

[Montana_1240]

Dean,

Because I have a TiVo, the receiver has two inputs for two separate receivers. I can record two different channels at once, while watching one that’s already recorded on the TiVo.

I’m pretty sure I could have avoided the need for a double connector plate on the outside of my Monty by using one of those Diplexers. One would combine the two coax leads at the dish, with a single lead running into the Monty over the Cable/Satellite connection. Then I could put another Diplexer inside, and break that one cable back into two for the receiver.

Trouble is, I don’t want to do away with the standard wiring on the Monty, and didn’t want to have to add another A/B switch to the one I already have between the cable input and receiver output. I like to be able to tune into whatever local service there may be, just in case of severe weather warnings, or just curiosity over local news events. (This area in southern Alabama doesn’t have access to the DirecTV “Local Channels,” so I only get the east and west coasts’ network shows and news.)

And, since I’d still have had to drill a hole to insert just the dish’s cable into the Monty, I went all the way and installed a double plate.

And the entire rest of my Monty has the standard wiring, working the way it did off the production line, for whoever wants to use it like it was designed. (We don’t use the bedroom TV much, and if we do, FOX News is just fine, off local cable.)

I was lucky in drilling through mine. When I had the fireplace out of its cabinet, I was able to see how the cable/satellite connector came into the Monty, and knew where I’d have to drill to put the new one in. And, since the hole was on an outside wall, I knew there’d be no wiring that I might drill through. Plus, I had been checking when the outside had dew on it, so I knew there wasn’t any aluminum framing at that point, either. Something I suggest anyone do before attempting to mess with a wall.

And you can use a diplexer on that Dish Network dish. There’s a house on the CG grounds, right next to our rig, and it’s got two Dual LNBFs, with a diplexer on each pair of cables, and one from each diplexer, running to where the lady has each of her receivers. I’m guessing that there’s a diplexer at each receiver, breaking out the coax, if the receiver can’t do it internally. Check with a Dish Network shop and see if that’s right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplexer

I’ve also hit the jackpot with speedy dish alignment a few times. I know what you mean.

My signal strength meter is useless. I can’t adjust the sensitivity right enough to get a signal on the meter, even after the dish is aligned and the receiver’s saying it’s got a 98% signal strength. That stupid thing is either full over to the right, or simply dead to the left. It might be broken. I don’t care. I don’t use it after three attempts failed. But you’re right about leveling the post your dish is on. Unless it is, everything else will be off.

But, if you really want a slick and speedy way to align a dish, check THIS out: http://www.alignasite.com/ Once I tire of using a compass and the TV screen’s signal strength indications, I’m getting one of those!

I like DirecTV because I can get FOX News without buying a special program package. I hate sports, so no system will win me over with “tempting” sports packages. And I prefer not dealing with skew. Saw a guy who went to the trouble getting his Dish Newtork dish very tastefully hand-painted with a mountain lake scene, including a fifth-wheel, in Mexico, only to have the entire scene skewed far off because he forgot that little bit of alignment fact when ordering the painting. Sad. We plan on getting that dish painted. (Alaskan gold pans are painted just like that in most of the gift shops, BTW.)

Plus, my DirecTV contract came with the free dish and half the cost of the TiVO rebated.

Steve